Underpainting with RU

[Richard Budig]

I've been slopping paint for almost 20 years, and decided to try one of those raw umber underpaintings for the first time. Yikes!!! Not easy.

I'd appreciate some thoughts on this. My guess is that this has been covered, here, before, so if someone could point me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it.

[Julie Deane]

Hi Richard

Are you trying to do glazing? Or just using an underpaint of any sort for the first time under a more alla prima approach?

[Richard Budig]

Julie:

For all these years, I've worked mostly at direct painting -- a solid sketch/drawing, and then start painting. That's a difficult way to go, but if you keep at it, you eventually start to "get it." I thought I was in that notch, now -- of getting it -- so I decide to branch out and learn to paint the old fashioned way.

Over the years, I've read tons of stuff about painting -- all those techniques -- but that old master thing of using solid underpaintings kept popping up, so I decided I'd have a go at it.

I don't know about you, but it was like starting over, in some ways.

And those who write about it aren't all that clear, either. They talk about underpaintings using raw umber, burnt umber, all the different reds, black and white, and so on. This confuses me because when you start glazing/scumbling over them, you get different effects with different colors, leading me to believe that the color of the underpainting is quite important. But, these writers don't get into that very much. So, I feel I'm still out there on that limb of the tree labeled "for dumb students."

I would like to know more about it, but from what I've done so far, it's a very tricky thing. Gotta get that underpainting just the right degree of value and then you have to sort out what colors to glaze/scumble over them. It's about as tricky as when I started with direct painting -- sorting what color/value to use where.

Still, it picks away at me. I feel we should know as much as possible about making pictures.

I have found a site (www.artpapa.com) run by a Russian who goes into some detail about it. Even has demonstrations, but I'm not sure I like what he says, which, in effect, is: We're not worried about the real color, just that we get a pretty picture in the end.

So far, my attempt has left me a bit dizzy -- it seemed more difficult to lay in color. That cussed underpainting keeps getting in the way. :-)

[Juan Martinez]

Richard

Have you found what you are looking for? You mentioned "old master techniques"; may I ask which old masters you have in mind. Maybe I will have some suggestions for you, depending on the era of painting you're interested in emulating.

Frankly, I'm generally skeptical about "glazing over a monochrome underpainting" ever having been a widespread and effective method. Most of the paintings I have seen that I know were painted in this manner, look terrible today because much of the glazed colour has long since disappeared.

All best.

Juan

[William Whitaker]

Richard,

I agree completely with Juan. It is best to paint as directly and as broadly as possible. I only glaze when a special effect calls for it. That is not very often.

Bill

[Marvin Mattelson]

I'm with Bill and Juan. I think that for the most part glazing is unnecessary. Besides which, using little paint and lots of medium ( the essence of glazing) makes for a weak paint film. Painting with a loaded brush gives you a lot more control over the colors you can mix and the subtleties you can achieve.

[Richard Budig]

Folks:

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Juan asks "which old masters?" Well, Juan, I suppose that was a rhetorical reference . . . all of them so to speak. I've just become interested in this technique, and, in fact, I've been developing my own glazing techniques that are probably different, yet the same, in some ways, from any of those old masters.

Rather than going through the RU, or black/white/gray underpainting, I've been using rather bold colors in the direction in which I'm interested in going, and then glazing over them.

For example, where I'd like to have a real warm, old wooden barn wall -- an interior view -- I'll paint it in somewhat garish reds, and then come back and glaze in various quantities of burnt umber/alizarin/Ivory black. You get the idea. These glazes cut the garish quality of raw red, let the red shine through, change things to a darkish, orangish, reddish look that seems thin and transparent. You can add a touch of blue (ultramarine or cobalt, also, which further tempers the strong red.

As I say, I'm doing this mostly to get the concept, and, also, to see what happens. It's all new to me, so it's fun, too. I must say that using glazes for the backgrounds, and opaques for the lights, and those items in the foreground, provides some interesting ways of seeing things. The opaque things seem to bounce forward while the background/shadow seem to have depth. But, of course, this is one of the reason for doing all this.

I may adopt glazing, but in a limited way. For now, it's a learning process for me. If anyone has any other ideas for me, I'd like hearing them.

If I have one REAL complaint, it is that my art education has been so hit and miss. I learn where I can, and not always in the order the information would be presented in a formal school setting. So, as you might suspect, I get a hunk of something that is a light year ahead of where I am, then them a bit of something that is well behind where I am, and I'm left in the middle, trying to sort out just where I am and what I have actually learned. In the end, though, it is fun, and I'd rather try to make art than anything else.

[Michele Rushworth]

Marvin, you wrote:

Besides which, using little paint and lots of medium ( the essence of glazing) makes for a weak paint film.

As I understand it, glazing should not involve lots of medium. It is done by applying a physically very thin layer of transparent paint, at the consistency it is when it comes straight from the tube.

[Julie Deane]

Hi -
I can't advise you much on this technique. So far I have only used glazes to correct values or too bright a color, and occasionally for painting, as in a reflection in a mirror. Obviously, since the glazes go over the underpainting, the color of the underpainting affects the final result. Some of that can be deducted by thinking about color theory, and some can be learned through trial and error.

But I can point you to an excellent demo Karin Wells did on the forum, showing how she glazes. Unfortunately, I don't have time to look up where it is for you right now, but if you search messages with her name and glazing, you should find it. The picture is of a fantasy/elf person, and she takes you from her original underpainting to the final product. It was a real "aha!" moment for me when I saw these. I understand the process so much better now.

There's also a wonderful beginning/middle/end example by an artist whose name I can't recall at the moment (sorry - it's that I recall the face, can't recall the name thing). He is headquarted in Holland, and has posted his tryptichs for us to view, in which he starts out with a very light underpainting. Look up tryptich and you might find it.

If anyone can provide the links, that would be nice.

[Mike McCarty]

You might want to give this thread a look: "Underpainting by Karin Wells".