Ryder's technique

Patricia Joyce · 11-10-2003, 02:01 PM

I will be attending Tony Ryder's portrait drawing workshop in January, so I have been studying his book. In preparation, I thought my first drawing attempt on toned paper with graphite and white pastel should be a copy of his work. I have attached the drawing and reference piece from his book.

This was an interesting learning experience. His ability to render skin with all the nuances is amazing. I fumbled quite a bit, laying down a shadow then having to lift it out again, unable to get the skin to breathe, per se. His shadow areas are very complex. My next drawing will be on toned paper but with a live model. I will post that when complete.

Overall working on toned paper felt clumsy but I think I will like it the more I do. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Patricia Joyce · 11-10-2003, 02:20 PM

It is hard for me to gauge how much white pastel Ryder applied just by looking at the pic in his book. Every time I added white it really looked too stark, so there is very little on my drawing. And I could not seem to get the darks as rich as his. The softest graphite I used was 8B.

Terri Ficenec · 11-10-2003, 08:37 PM

Hi Pat!

You might try charcoal pencils (the wrapped kind) for those dark darks. Don't think you'll find them very different from working with graphite, except that they give you a deeper dark.

Good luck with your class!

Mary Pedini · 11-18-2003, 01:26 PM

Hi Patricia,

This drawing is very nice. You have a real soft look going here. If you want a more three dimensional look with more striking contrast, check out Jimmie Arroyo's latest post of Ruby2. I think he states what tools he used to create that look. It's very powerful.

Good luck at your class in January!
Mary

Jimmie Arroyo · 11-18-2003, 05:04 PM

Patricia,

It looks like it's coming along and as you've said, the lights and darks would provide better contrast. I've been using an 8B graphite pencil also, but will switch to charcoal pencil to get better darks and it will avoid the shiny look. I will not abandon graphite, charcoal will just be an added tool. I used to use Nupastel white, but heard it is not archival, so am using charcoal white. The brand is Derwent chinese white, don't know if that's the best, but bought it to give it a try. Would like to find something archival that puts the white in as good as Nupastel does. I posted a better example of Ruby2 in my thread, plus a closeup showing how much white I like to apply. It's not as much as Ryder, but I do like his style.

Hope you have a great time at his workshop, I'm jealous. I wanted to take Robert Liberace's figure drawing class, also in January, but business has slowed, and I can't afford to take the time off and the expenses associated with it.

Jeff Fuchs · 11-18-2003, 06:07 PM

Practice, practice, practice.

11-19-2003, 01:14 AM

Well, I'm no Jimmie Arroyo but here's my experience:

The tooth of paper makes a big difference on how much contrast you can hold. In general, I notice you don't have as much value differentiation as he does, e.g. the darks don't go as dark and the lights don't go as light. In my experiments with his techniqhue, I just pushed each as far as they would go on the section where I first "keyed" the drawing and then forced myself to follow that example.

Don't worry about the light going too light. You have more to gain by following his direction on a practice run than by trying to figure what a good drawing would look like. It all works out. Regarding the darks, I found that waiting a few minutes allowed me to add layers of value. I don't know why - it may have been temporary blindness. But, I did have to use the pencils in sequence, not skipping any, to get the maximum darkness.

Good luck! Please post your work after the seminar too!!

Best
Lisa

Patricia Joyce · 11-20-2003, 02:34 PM

Jimmie, Jeff, and Lisa,

Thanks for your input. I tried to use charcoal last night, not that this was going to be anything more than an exercise, but I did not like the finished look. I thought it might be because I was applying the charcoal over 8B graphite (which was already shiny - I hate that). Anyways, the charcoal looked really stark. I think the lack of tooth may be a factor also. Jimmie, I am going to go back and look closely at your drawings again to study your transition from graphite to charcoal (would love to attain your level control, such a nice finished look to all of your drawings)

On my the next attempt (which will be a figure drawing,using one of my studies from class) I will find paper with a better tooth (any suggestions as to what kind of paper? I was using Stonehenge, but I don't remember weight offhand and am not at my studio) and move to charcoal a bit sooner rather than trying to add charcoal to the 8B. Adding more white worked pretty well but I think I am going to prefer less, than rather than more, the better I get at this.

Will definately share the workshop here on the Forum when I return at end of January. Knowing it is coming has kept me drawing. The airfare and workshop fees are great motivators!

Thank you, Lisa, for your suggestions as far as layering and standing back every once in awhile. I always have to remind myself to step back, I get so intense!!

Have a great day -
Patty

Mike McCarty · 11-20-2003, 03:15 PM

Patricia,

You might want to try a piece of soft black pastel chalk.

Patricia Joyce · 11-20-2003, 03:33 PM

Mike,

Would I still need to move to the pastel when I am at a transition to very dark, without putting down any graphite? It seems too much graphite and then nothing covers it really because the graphite is so slick. Does this make sense to anyone? Am I killing the tooth of the paper with too much graphite? Will charcoal of any type really mix with graphite or does it need to be applied next to graphite when attempting to move into a darker shadow? I wish I had my materials here...