Joan of Arc background

Dan Saunders · 05-31-2003, 10:47 AM

Hi everyone,

My underpainting is 2/3's of the way complete. Currenty the background is still a mid-tone grey. I used Paint Shop Pro 7 to add a misty/cloudy type of background to see the effect before actually painting it in.

I had considered an interior, old church background but I am afraid it will detract from the figure. What do you think?

The previous steps of this underpainting can be seen in the Works In Progress section of the forum. The panting , by the way, is 40" x 30".

Thanks

Tom Edgerton · 05-31-2003, 04:33 PM

Dan,

It's going to be a great piece.

One thing to consider, if you put in a specific historical or architectural background, it may add interest in a way, and show off your painting skills. It thus makes it a historical document, with that girl as your prototype Joan.

BUT - the misty, indistinct background lets all young girls project themselves into the painting as the subject, which may be empowering also, and takes it out of a historical context and makes it timeless. Being a minimalist myself, this appeals to me graphically too.

OR - you could go with a mythical, rocky landscape with a lot of distance and mist, but no architecture to date it. Sort of a "Lord of the Rings," New Zealand look. Or see Leonardo's "Mona Lisa" or "Virgin of the Rocks."

Really eager to see it finished. Good luck!

Tom

Dan Saunders · 05-31-2003, 05:58 PM

Ok, now you have given me more options. LOL. My brain is swimming in confusion. But, you have given me interesting aspects to consider. As I complete the underpainting of the figure, I will play those over in my mind.

Thank you very much. I appreciate the help.

Dan

Michele Rushworth · 05-31-2003, 10:06 PM

What a nice piece! I do have a couple of suggestions, though. The light areas on the far side of the face (below the eyebrow, below the eye and around the far corner of the mouth) are too light and force that part of her face to come forward too much, causing distortion.

Otherwise I like it a lot. The armor will be fun to paint. I look forward to seeing the finished image.

Dan Saunders · 05-31-2003, 10:36 PM

Hi,

The face isn't actually as bright as it apears to be. A close-up view is available in the "Works In Progress" section. But if it's ok, I will post it here.

Michele Rushworth · 06-01-2003, 01:52 AM

This is what I was thinking. Just those three spots on the right side of her face might need to be darkened down a bit.

Jim Riley · 06-03-2003, 12:49 AM

Dan,

I tend to favor simple backgrounds and would guess this painting would benefit by keeping it uncluttered. I also recommend thumbnails or preliminary roughs as a way of sorting out your options before the start of a painting. As you are now finding out it's harder to make something fit as an afterthought. As Sargent has stated the whole is more important than the pieces.

The background on one side does not relate to the background on the other side. I realize your intent but don't be too obvious with the light against dark and dark against light silhouette attempt.

Good concept and fine start.

(You might might include her right hand. The arm tends to end at the elbow where the armour is finger-like.)

Mari DeRuntz · 06-03-2003, 01:14 AM

Quick question: is that the grip a soldier would use to draw or to sheath a sword? I would guess the grip would be overhand. Before background issues, I'm having trouble believing the anatomy, the gesture of the figure.

I'm posting your original resource photos here; note the difference between the arm in your original photo and the arm in your underpainting.

Dan Saunders · 06-03-2003, 06:49 AM

Hi Jim,

I did more thumbnails than you would believe. But as I always do, I second guess myself later on during the project. I will keep the background simple. I think that will work best. As for her right hand, I simply haven't added it yet. I will probably do so today, as I add folds to the skirt.

Hi Mari,

I have been waiting for someone to mention the way the sword is being held. I was going to ask if anyone noticed it.

The sword is being gripped in such a way as to place it "back"....not "withdraw" it. My intent is to show restraint in use of force. But to have the force there if needed.

Tom Edgerton · 06-09-2003, 01:11 PM

Dan--

Hope I didn't waste too much of your time with other suggestions and subsequent confusion. But now you know what you want to do, and the simplicity of this approach will work just fine.

Jim's right about the gradation of the background ending above her left eye--our right. I have always had a devil of a time with something this simple, as in deciding where to change tones behind the figure. I painted really "patchy" backgrounds as I started, and still do sometimes.

What if the gradation followed the diagonal axis that you've already established from lower left to upper right corner. It would tend to break somewhat lower on the dark side of her head, and the lower half of her face and shoulder would start to emerge from it on that side. Might give you an opportunity to (somewhat) lose the edges on that darker side. Might heighten the drama.

When I started to look again at this issue in Sargent, I began to realize that if the PERFECT background value is set behind the head, the tonal variations can be very subtle and compressed and still give a real feeling of space and atmosphere around and behind, without a lot of patchy value change. I'm only beginning to get it, and have to fight hard for it.

Best--TE