Pencil and charcoal papers
 

I have a question for anyone willing to answer concerning your drawing paper preferences.

I have been drawing in charcoal, soft pencil and conte more than usual - but am not happy with the textured paper I have been using (a charcoal paper). Since my drawings are mostly preliminaries to painting I haven't been that concerned with the paper until recently.

Now, I am more interested in actually "finishing" some of the drawings and want to buy some great paper. I am out of the loop as far as this is concerned. Hot pressed, cold pressed, Canson or what? I know pastel artists like the Canson Mi-Tientes, but what about all the pencil and charcoal artists?

If you have a certain paper you love or a pencil or type of charcoal, etc that you love, please share your knowledge with me. We have limited types of papers here but I can order anything. Thank you in advance!

Denise,

I just recently sent for the sample pack of 17 papers that is available at Dakota Art Pastels, for a fee of 25$. I was very pleased with the selection, and found that I really like the Wallis professional grade Archival paper, in Belgian gray, for my Conte' and Derwent pastel pencils.

My second choice is the Art Spectrum Colourfix paper. I also like the velour paper for use with softer pastels. I had never tried any of these papers before, and like you, only used the Canson and other textured papers that are commonly available. I too really dislike the texture of most pastel and charcoal papers.

I like Stonehenge warm white printmaking paper. Very heavy. Can take a beating.

Peggy

Denise

For more finished drawings in pencil (graphite) and/or charcoal, you'll probably end up finding that you will need a couple of different papers. For example, the Stonehenge I am familiar has a relatively smooth texture and takes graphite well. And, as Peggy said, it is tough. I find it too smooth for charcoal, however, so for that, I use a paper with more tooth so that the charcoal has something to grab hold of.

My favourite papers for finished drawings of the non-graphite variety (charcoal, carbon pencil) are all from Fabriano. Some of them are normally sold as watercolour paper, but they are superb drawing papers. The best all-round one is Fabriano UNO. It is double-sized so it is tough. I use the one they call "soft press" which is not as heavily textured as the cold press. (Hot press is too smooth generally for finished drawings. It can be done, but it takes way too much work). Anyway, UNO is 100% cotton and acid-free. I also use Fabriano FA5 which is a less expensive version of the UNO. It is only 50% cotton content, but is also acid-free. Both are very tough and can stand a lot of abuse, although perfect erasure is nearly impossible.

Finally, for purely charcoal use, the Fabriano Roma line is excellent. It is not quite as tough as the previously mentioned ones, but because of that (maybe it has less sizing) it seems to accept more charcoal and it does erase almost perfectly (be gentle, though; use a kneadable eraser). The line has names such as Roma Michelangelo or Roma Tizziano, etc. These designate different colours.

Hope it helps.

Juan

Thanks so much!
 

To Linda, Peggy, and Juan,

Thank you all for giving me so much great feedback on papers, technique, and inspiration!


Linda, I am sending off for that package as soon as I find it.


Peggy, even though I was a good note-taker this summer in your information-packed workshop, I failed to write down your paper choices. I'm sure it is the only note I didn't take! You spotted me though and answered. Hope Asheville is beautiful and cooler than it is here in Eastern NC right now! Let me know!


Juan,

I read all your posts here as well as another list and am always learning from your advice. I am also in awe of your drawings as well as your paintings. The drawings you have posted on your site are beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and here are a few notes I made after reading your post: I have a problem already of getting too dark too soon with charcoal, so a paper with more tooth is probably what I need. Even when I use a lighter charcoal pencil, I have trouble with this. Yes, I think the cold press is the best also and will try the Fabriano - never tried them before. I have trouble knowing "when" to erase, usually starting out too soon. I also have trouble with applying white conte over darker conte or charcoal, never getting the effect I want. I think I am afraid of too many layers. I took all your advice on another site about erasers. I have a Staetdler (sp.) as well as other kneadables, which I always used in college. (I was a commercial artist.)

Thanks to all of you again and I am ordering the papers and will let you know (several months from now of course) how it is going.

We have talked our local art museum into having a figure drawing class at night with live models, as well as a teacher (quite a feat) which starts in October. I am so excited and will be using papers that you guys have recommended.

Sincerely,

Denise,

Thanks for your kind words about my work and my commentary here and elsewhere. I appreciate it.

I'll just pick up briefly on a couple of the new things you mentioned. Forgive me if I go over things you already know. Except in places where I know I'm going to go quite dark, I tend to use a very highly sharpened piece of charcoal so that I lightly hatch and cross-hatch to get layer after layer of tone. Because of the sharp point, I can't press too hard on the paper because it will break the point if I do. So I guess I sneak up on the mid-tones, rather than go too dark and then erase afterwards. For working on finished drawings I also always have ready about 6 to 8 sharpened sticks of charcoal or of carbon pencil (as the case may be) of each hardness. (Mostly in the softer range, though. It is easier to make a light tone with a soft charcoal - by using a light hand - than it is to make a darker tone with a harder one.) This has the advantage of being able to set down one as it becomes dull and picking up a new, sharp one without breaking the continuity of what you are doing. I found that if I wasn't thus prepared, that I would keep working with dull points, or with the wrong one, simply because I didn't want to stop to re-sharpen it. Also, if it breaks, then I don't have to re-sharpen right away because I've got plenty of spares handy. This makes a surprisingly big difference. The Fabriano papers I mentioned, except for some of the Roma, are white, so you wouldn't use the white conte. That might be a good idea anyway, while you are getting used to the paper. Some time ago, on another thread, someone posted a reproduction of a drawing in-progress by the 19th century French painter Pierre-Paul Prud'hon. He was a master of the toned-paper/black & white chalk drawing. Rebecca Alzofon, who is pretty darned good at such drawings herself, has researched Prud'hon extensively and has many great examples of his (and her) work on her website. You may wish to check it out. I believe she is at http://art.net/~rebecca/

Anyway, one thing you'll notice in the unfinished example (I wish I could put my finger on the darned thing and re-post it) is that the white and black chalk families are kept quite separate. When they are blended, they may overlap somewhat at the shadow/light transition zone (bed-bug line) but generally it's tough to go over darker stuff with the white even if it's been erased. The white rarely covers completely and it looks very bluish when it is put over a dark, too.

Finally, as far as layers go, if you want to avoid excessive layering, then keeping the light and dark families separate makes even more sense. Depending on the value of the toned paper you use, the paper could be used for many of the mid-tones to even the half-tones. This will also help keep the white chalk away from the dark chalk.

Best of luck in the life drawing classes. I hope that they give you the chance at some point to have extended poses (9 to 20 hrs) so that you can produce a more highly-finished drawing, if that is your goal. Anyway, life drawing is fun no matter what.

All the best.

Juan

Prud'hon, etc.
 

Thanks again, Juan.

I searched for the papers at our art store which supplies the local university - they only carry Stonehenge, Lenox, and Arches brands, a few other printmaking papers but not any Fabriano. I plan on ordering some soon. I did buy Stonehenge and Lenox and have started a drawing on the Lenox. What a difference! I already feel better about the application and my control. As in everything in painting, as well as drawing - the supplies really do make all the difference.

I have been to the Prud'hon site - actually went there a few weeks ago and viewed Alfonzon's work as well. Yes, her work is very good. I must've found her link and yours at about the same time from ARC, I think!

Thank you again for all the advice. I really do need it since it has been so long since I was serious about finishing drawings and am very interested in it again.

One more thing: I think I remember that you are from Montreal. My brother's girlfriend lives there and I visited a couple of Februarys ago. My brother works in Ottawa. Wow! I loved it even in the deep snow of February. I have not visited in the summer, which my brother and girlfriend say is unbelievably beautiful. What a wonderful city - and the food!

Sincerely,

Denise

Everything you say about Montreal is correct except for one thing; I'm from Toronto.:)

Best,
Juan

I knew that.....sure
 

Juan,

I knew that...uh...duh, what's up doc?

I should've looked before I hit reply to see if you were really from Montreal -- I had it in my mind that you were! So, I've been to the airport in Toronno (as you guys say it) Looks very big!

OK, enough funny stuff! Thanks again for the info.

Sincerely,

Paper Resources
 

Here is a list of some of the places I have found that sell art papers, a little off the beaten path:

Regular and Special Art Paper

1. Riverside Paper Corp., 800 Lawe St., Appleton, WI 54915; Ph.: (920) 991-2200

2. Twinrocker Handmade Paper; Owners Howard and Kathryn Clark, P.O.Box 413, Brookston, IN 47923. Ph. 765-563-3119; email: :[email protected] [email protected]; Website: http://www.twinrocker.com


3. Vicki Schober Co., Brookfield, WI; Ph.: (262) 373-0000 Website: http://www.vickischober.com/ , Vicki supplies all sorts of art paper and mat boards.

4. New York Central Art Supply
62 Third Avenue @ 11th Street New York City 10003
Ph.: (800) 950-6111
Website: http://www.nycentralart.com/
"Paper Department with more than 3,000 incredible papers, many that you can't find anywhere else."