Differences in series of paint brands
 

I am about to make the big switch from buying my paints at the local craft store (subject to being at the mercy of them being out of certain colors or a higher series) to purchasing them solely online. I am not going to ask what your favorite brand is, it has been answered many times before in various threads and seems to be a very personal thing, mostly what you were introduced to as a young artist and what you become used to. I'd be very impressed if there is anyone out there who has tried every single brand in this catalog.

My question is actually about the "series" of these paints. Your options are very limited locally at the stores but now I have the option of picking series 1-6 of each color. Obviously there is a significant difference in price but, chemically...and from a usability standpoint, what makes them superior as the series goes up? How does a series 4 from Sennelier compare to a series 4 from say Winsor Newton? Perhaps the Sennelier is more but is that reflective of the quality or that maybe one is from another country, tacking on extra money. Does anyone here actually purchase the series 6, 80 dollar and up, 40 ml tube? It is certainly not something I could afford but ..is it worth it? Also, has anyone ever had problems mixing 2 different brands?

-Amanda

I believe that series numbers are sole for pricing purposes. The more expensive colors would be in a different number series. Correct me if I am wrong.

They should all mix fine, but some brands use different oils, so that should be considered. Safflower oil is used exclusively by one brand, for instance, and would be a slower drier.

I never had trouble mixing brands, series or whatever. You only cannot mix Green P. Veronese with Ultramarine Blue or other colors which contain sulfur, if you do so, you'll experience a chemical reaction that will affect the color in a matter of months.
Sargent had no care about brands or suppliers, that's why some of his colors are vanishing away, getting brownish or greyish.

That's frightening about Sargent, Claudemir. That's why I want more info about what I am applying to my canvas. If the masters can make mistakes what hope do I have?

I've heard that if a tube of paint appears more "oily" (you take the cap off and oil is the first thing that comes out) that it is inferior because it was added to extend the life of a lesser quality product. That being said I have gone up in a series and noticed more oil. The colors seem to stay wetter longer. So I am not sure if that first statement is true. My question was if anyone knows which increases as you go up in the series, the pigment of the color or the linseed oil. What causes the price increase and makes it superior?

Julie, yes, I did notice that Sennelier is made of Safflower instead of Linseed. Have you tried it? I am so tempted to try this brand based on this tube of sepia printer's ink that a professor let me try years ago. I still dream of the velvety, creamy wonder of that ink. Any thoughts as to whether that would be a problem mixing paints...not because there would be two different brands but because you'd be mixing a linseed based paint with a safflower based paint?

I suppose that the following definition can be extended to define the "series" differences, not just student vs professional grade?


Both artist grade and traditional student grade are made by packing fluid oil with pigment to get the desired stiffness of paste. The difference between them is that traditional student grade has pigment taken out and replaced with extenders. This lowers the price, tinting strength, and opacity. But the two types share the quality of raw materials.

So what level do you choose/feel is adequate?

The first consideration for quality in paint is the vehicle. Since Cennini wrote his treatise on painting materials and methods over 500 years ago, linseed oil has been preferred, because of all the drying oils, it produces the most durable paint films. Walnut oil is an acceptable second choice, but the films it produces are not as strong.

Safflower oil dries so slowly as to not be considered a drying oil. It produces incredibly weak, granular films, and requires the addition of siccatives to make usable paint. It has become quite universal in commonly available oil paints not because of its superiority, but because it is very cheaply available. Produced by the tank-car load in great abundance for use in the food industries, a vast supply is always available.

Conversely, linseed oil is becoming increasingly expensive as declining production makes it more difficult to obtain owing to its replacement in the paint and varnish industry by synthetics and petrochemicals.

"Series" is an identification of a price range that has nothing to do with quality differences between different series. The overall quality of student through professional grade tiers is specified for each grade regardless of the relative cost of different colors. A "series" system is tied to the comparative cost of different pigment stuffs, e.g., cadmium red pigment costs more than raw siena.

Because most painters today expect a certain uniformly thick, pasty consistency from tube colors, there is actually a tendency for some tube colors to be underbound (i.e., not enough oil). A tube of color that exudes free oil only demonstrates that: A. there is ample oil to bind the paint and B. the paint has "aged" adequately, to fully disperse the oil around each pigment particle. Far from being indication of a defect, it's a good sign and easily dealt with by storing the tubes inverted vertically.

As with most items, real value can be a bit difficult to ascertain. My opinion is that "student" grade paints are the absolutely poorest value for the money, and worse, a cruel hoax that puts a very real stumbling block in the way of developing painters who need every possible advantage to smooth the way for their progress. No one ever became wealthy by saving on paint, and the best value for money spent is to buy the very highest quality paints you can obtain.

These days, the best paint is not offered by the "big names" who monopolize art and craft stores. Grumbacher and Winsor & Newton (to name but two) are hollow shells of companies that once represented reliable high quality. They have been bought and sold so many times their committment to their customers and to high quality has shifted entirely to their fiscal bottom line. For the moment, they continue to trade off the patrimony of once-excellent reputations, but their current product lines would not meet their own former standards.

The highest quality paints are currently offered by small, boutique color makers who truly know their craft, and remain committed to high quality. Robert Doak, M.Graham, Old Holland, Vasari, Michael Harding, and Cennini to name a few among these. I have tried them all, and all represent a very high quality.

If you are comparing prices at this level of quality, don't overlook the difference tube size makes!

There is no reason not to intermix oil paints from any number of makers, or even quality tiers . . . almost everyone who paints prefers certain colors form one maker and not another, so most folks' paint-boxes show quite a cross-section of color makers.

Claudemir, much has changed since Sargent's day. There would be no "store-bought" artists colors if industry did not demand massive quantities of pigment stuffs of all kinds. ASTM standards, improved methods of manufacture and chemical engineering have eliminated the old caveats for color intermixtures based on adverse chemical reactions and trace impurities. There is no particular reason to consider such, unless you are mulling your own paints from uncertified pigment sources, or using long-obsolete arsenic compounds.

Richard, I cannot thank you enough for the information you just posted. I've been torturing myself trying to figure out which brand I should buy, which boastful product slogan is lying to me, and which has the highest series for the best money. Your information certainly did clarify some false beliefs.

While researching some of the paints you mentioned I came across a few things. I am a big fan of product reviews and I came across a rating system on Wet canvas for the different oil paint brands. There are 3 pages total.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/P...ASC&startrec=0


Also, you mentioned Robert Doak paints and as I was doing a search I came across this blog sharing info from Doak himself about the oil seeping out of the tube.

http://allthestrangehours.blogspot.c...t-doak_05.html

Now I think I am leaning towards the Michael Harding. Seems like a decent price compared to others and seems to be highly recommended.


Thanks again Richard!

Amanda, with all due respect for product reviews (no doubt they're very helpful in assessing mass market items) note how the WC review neither includes brands I mentioned (with the exception of M.Graham and Grumbacher) nor offers a wide enough sampling to be truly useful. Two brands have the greatest number of reviews, Gamblin with 13 and M.Graham with 10, which seems testimony to their availability, since both are distributed widely. Gamblin advertises heavily, which no doubt contributes to their edge over Graham.

WC's participation is comprised largely of beginners and hobbyists who pleasantly and agreeably solve troublesome issues of materials and methods by voting democratically. I note the paints sampled received an average, enthusiastic three and a half stars (none less than three) . . . which makes me wonder if a WC average reviewer's criteria for judging the quality of paint are knowledgeably based and objective. In questions of materials and methods (which are always conditional and subjective by degrees) it truly is necessary to know who's lying to you?

David Rourke is a serious, knowledgeable, professional artist who makes it a habit to sort facts from fiction when discussing painting materials and methods. You can usually call Robert Doak and speak with him personally, on the phone. He is no-nonsense, opinionated and direct; some find him abrasive and forbidding, but he has a lifetime invested in making good paint, and he is very experienced and knowledgeable. He is sincere and unquestionably honest.

You can't go wrong with Michael Harding paint.

Hi Richard,

Actually, Robert Doak, M.Graham, Old Holland, Vasari, Michael Harding were all included in those reviews, just on a different page. Vasari and Michael Harding were amongst the very highest rated. I thought that myself about certain, more available, paints such as Windsor Newton being skewed. I was basing the reviews not on the star system but on the written reviews of the users. (Viewers have to scroll down quite a bit to find them, not the most organized web page.) Quite a few of the Michael Harding reviews specifically compares them to other brands, which I appreciated. One always has to judge how wise the source is no matter what product you are researching. It is just an opinion after all. I actually mentioned the product review because I noticed how skimpy some of the reviews were and thought that some people on this website may want to share their expertise on the rating system. It is useful information for any artist searching the web and I did not see another rating system like it on any other website (hint?) but I am not experienced enough to contribute. It might encourage other artist to upgrade as it did me. I just placed my order for MH paints and my credit card is smoking! :)

-Amanda

Now I'm embarrassed . . . thanks for helping me through that link. Turns out it's a pretty good overall review at that, if you're smart enough to navigate it . . . I sure wasn't. :(

The number of people participating in such a review would necessarily always be pretty small, I think.

Amanda, about Michael Harding's paints: I have been using them a fair bit, as my budget allows - I love the "long" quality - that is, they are not as stiff as other brands mentioned, plenty of pigment, they flow well.

His paints were a splurge last year, and I do enjoy them. To be fair, I also use and enjoy other brands, but his are excellent.

I am so fortunate to have a Danish manufacturer of artist grade oil paint, Artifex, close to where I live.
I have bought the paints many times before in art supply shops, but I never could get any specific information about the quality, other than "it is good". I thought so too.

Right before Christmas I heard that the factury has a shop and that it was a little cheeper to buy directly from the manufacturer, so I went to pay them a visit.

I talked to the owners, two elderly and very enthusiastic gentlemen who gladly told about the paints.

They told me that they exclusivly use the best linseed oil for grounding and only pure pigments, no additives of any kind.

No additives, wax and such, coarses that the paint feels slightly different depending upon the nature of the diffent pigments.

They also said that all pigments are bought from the same few manufacteres around the world, so if it is pure pigments that are used, then it is basically the same paint, no matter what name is on the tube.

Some of their paints also have excessive oil coming out of the tube. I have noticed that Ultramarine and Titanium often does.

I asked about light fastness and they showed me a huge catalog where all known pigments were graded so they could pick only the best.

This was an assuring experience and I have no doubt that I get value for my money over there, and do you know why? I don't pay much for the marketing !!!!

They didn't even have a sign outside the building, I had to ask if this was the right place!!!

Allan, that sounds like fun! I'd say those gents are the Danish equivalent of Doak, Vasari and some others. I've found these craftsmen who are dedicated to their craft always seem to enjoy visiting with the people who use their paint, and like the opportunity to explain the extra pains they take in making it.

To my mind, this is the current state of materials supply for painters who are interested in quality, and knowing their materials. It's true that well-made paints can vary quite a bit in consistency, texture, and handling as is the nature of the pigments involved. It's also true that these essentially "hand made" paints of superlative quality are generally very reasonably priced, simply because their buyers aren't paying for massive advertising campaigns.

Vasari
 

Amanda,

I just want to chime in that I'm a huge fan of Vasari paints; arguably the best I've ever used! David Kassan who was active here on this Forum several years ago, personally introduced me to them by dragging me into their Manhattan showroom and retail shop. There one can test and play with every color, with sample tubes and palette knives provided on a huge table-top to squeeze out and intermix. I am primarily using their product range on my palette. The quality upgrade is dramatic, and I may even paint better as a result. You won't be disappointed with the finer paints available. They may cost more, but they are a great value with double the covering power and better handling characteristics! I'm not kidding (and Vasari is not paying me either).

Garth

This is going to be a painful couple of days waiting for my new paints. Perhaps as I run out I will replace with Vasari to give them a try and compare now that you have made them sound so dreamy, Garth. :)


Thanks to all who have chimed in!

I am a little late with this reply, but I just read the posts and can't resist chiming in. I was introduced to Vasari a few years ago and they are absolutely wonderful. I especially like the genuine naples yellow light. It is so much better then the pale washed out naples that so many brands have.
There is also a high oil content in most of their tubes, and Vasari suggests that you tap the tube, cap side down, on a hard surface a few times. This causes the heavier pigment to drop down toward the opening end of the tube and the oil to go to the other end, which helps the sustain the pigment.
Varsari mixes so well, and the colors are vibrant. It has become my favorite brand to use and is definitely worth trying if you haven't already.

Mary

Actually not. The oil content is adequate and not underbound for highest pigment content. Paints made without inordinate amounts of fillers, waxes and stearates will release some free oil when laid by in tubes.

The same is true of paints from other high-end "boutique" makers, including Robert Doak & Associates, Williamsburg, Cennini (Studio Products), Old Holland, Michael Harding, and M.Graham to name a few.

Genuine Naples Yellow pigment is a lead/antimony compound, heavy, opaque, and unique. It's certainly far,far different from the approximations often labelled "hue", "lake"or "extra" marketed by the majority of paint makers.

Learning about the nature and qualities of painting materials separates knowledgeable painters the way gourmets are distinguished from hungry teens at a Burger King.