Mona Lisa Smile from 2 yr old
 

In two weeks I will be doing a photo shoot of FOUR children. Saturday I meet with the clients to discuss setting, personalities of kids, customer preferences, clothing, etc. The children are all from out of town but will be here the day of the photo shoot. So I feel pressured to "get it right" in one photo shoot.

Today I practiced with my favorite two and a half year old, my granddaughter. In an hour I took over fifty shots on my covered front porch on a sunny day at about 11:30 am. I would be extremely happy if I could get shots like these two of four children. I would appreciate, again, any advice from the experts.

BTW, I have already started a drawing of pic two and plan to use this for an oil painting, if ever I get the time!!!

Another way to say this is: I'm going to meet with the clients to inform them of my preferences for clothing and settings, etc..

This might sound a little harsh, but the more of this you can control the better off you will be. Answer in your own mind what your preferences are then lead them in that direction.

I shudder to think about getting four children in sync. A few things that come to mind are: vary the depth and height of the subjects. And in that regard be careful not to have too narrow of a depth of field - more of a landscape setting. Arrange them so that you have one or two facing into the group in profile. Have an assistant available, preferably not the parent. Discuss with the assistant the type of assistance you will need before hand, and the speed in which you will need it (in and out of the frame quickly). Have as much of this worked out in your mind as you can and work toward at least one good predetermined composition .

When you give these matters up to the parents your asking for trouble. If they are insistant about some pose tell them that you will get to that also.

Once you get all the cats herded - snap a bunch. They will be in constant motion so worry more about their overall position instead of trying to get all to present the perfect expression in unison. It probably won't happen. But you may be able to get each one, apart from what the others may be doing. Work your best plan to death.

Sometimes a couch works well for varying the heights and posittions: the seat cushion, the arm, standing against the back cushion, etc. You may need to drag a couch into your light.

Nice light on the faces above!

Also, the time of day can be key for little ones. Don't schedule right before their nap time. Get from the parents when they are the freshest, most animated. For most kids this is usually sometime in the morning.

Hi Joyce, I too love the light on your beautiful granddaughter! On the first one, when painting, i would tone down that highlight just a bit. i wonder if it really looked as bright as that, sometimes i think the camera blows out the highlights a bit.

Thanks Mike,
I was hoping to hear from you. I needed your words to remind myself that I set the stage, I am the director. I am writing and writing composition ideas, how to handle objections, what I want to see, etc. Oh, did I mention they are four kids under the age of 8????? YIKES!!!
My goal is to convince the client that they do not want a group portrait but individual portraits of each child which can be hung as a dip tick au deu (sp?). ie same backgrounds on all four so thay can be hung together.

I actually wish I could bring them to my studio, but parents of two families and four kids, just too tight of quarters to get anything accomplished. So I am planning on bring my lighting and backgrounds to take shots indoors if I need to.

Christy,
Don't you love it? She is so beautiful, but then I am her grandmother, of course I think she is beautiful. Yes the photo does blow out highlights. But I can play with the image in photoshop to adjust accordingly. It's the second one I like best and am beginning to do in graphite - it is coming fast, too. Pure joy.

Hi Patty-

Great shots! Your granddaughter is a beauty.

In addition to the previous, I would suggest shooting a slew of the kids together in various compositions, then once you decide on the layout, take them separately, and do single shots of each kid. That way you have time to nail the pose with each child. You can always fiddle with photoshop to fine tune the compostion.

Good luck!

Stanka

Hi Stanka,
Always good to hear from you. Is it possible to do all of this in one day? I only have them for one photo shoot, because they are from out of town and are coming in for only a couple days. I am meeting the client at their home Monday and am praying for a perfect window and perfect weather on the day of the shoot. Or a covered porch.

Did I mention the husband is Chairman of the Board of the Diabetes Assoc in Cleveland - my biggest client to date! This came from a Diabetes Golf Tournament Fund Raiser. I was so suprised to hear that the Chairman of the Board bid for my work!
Patty

Hi Patty,

I certainly support the non-group option first. Yeesh, so very difficult- as you know, I share Mike's trepidation!

I would suggest following up with what Mike says, first find out the time of day when the littlest kids are at their best. Schedule the meeting with the grandmother a little earlier, then spend as much time as you need on site to really think through the lighting that will be present at that time of day, and various location options including a Plan B for bad weather. Take your camera and a doll or head statue that will let you approximate shadow directions and whether you'll need a fill reflector, etc. Test out different camera settings, too, including exposure - ie over - or under- exposures, etc.

See what furniture or seating props are available, and then work out several thumbnail ideas for the composition before you get to the shoot. Ask the mother to bring light, middle and dark value tops for each of the children, so you can think through the value arrangements.

Take aspirin.

Good luck!!

Patty-

Great Commission! Congratulations again!

Yes, I would shoot in one day. Chris has a great suggestion (hiya Chris) about scoping out the location beforehand for lighting, best place, etc. Here's what I do with groups and otherwise:

Bring your laptop on the day of the shoot to download pics in stages privately. Keep the kids away. You decide the best poses. Reshoot what you have to. Show the kids their positions, and get those individual shots. Sometimes they aggravate each other in group poses which brings on more tension. Download those to make sure you have what you need. Repeat all the above in a different location, and different lighting if you have time. Once YOU finalize the exact composition of ALL of them, show the parents.

Do not allow the parents to be there. My humble opinion. Of course, I have a great evil eye:)

I once showed up for an out of town photo shoot for a commission portrait of a grandmother and her two year old granddaughter. I had never been to the site.

When we finally got started I realized that the two year old would not "touch" her grandmother! All she wanted to do was cling to the baby sitter. After a few minutes of this nonsense I suggested that the baby sitter go downtown for a latte. This was essential to even getting started.

You have bitten off a mouth full. You must summon your most General (as in military) like demenor and be prepaired for anything.

I have found that your only hope is to have your game plan worked out very well in your mind. Which means, as Chris says, having a good handle on the landscape. If you do your homework well you will find that your best photos will come in the first five minutes of the shoot.

I would suggest that you have equipment and scene set up before the subjects ever get into the room.

If there is anything that is working in your favor (and it's a stretch to find something), it's that, in my opinion, there isn't much expectation to have all the kids in some kind of perfect pose. In fact, one crawling out of the scene is not that bad. Maybe one tugging the hair of the other. What I'm getting at is - worry more about their relative position in the composition, and not so much about micro managing their every movement. The cat herding analogy keeps coming to mind.

Get there as quick as you can and stay as long as you can before the pablum hits the fan.

Thank you for all your advice, Chris, Stanka, and Mike. You have given me allot of information to think through before my appointment with Grandma and Grandpa on Monday afternoon. I found that they live in a "cluster home" with no yard, so it will be indoor, which is better for me. When I meet with them we will go room to room to see what I can use, what windows may benefit, etc.

I'm in the process of writing out a list for client's to use when preparing for a photo shoot. Chris your idea about shirts in several values is a great idea I would not have thought of. I have already requested the client to have available for me, pics of the children so I can get some idea of their coloring.

Aspirin...yes

Prayer...lots of it!!!!!

How old are the kids, exactly?

Plan EVERYTHNG out well in advance, not the day of the sitting. Scope out the location and know what the lighting will be at the time of day you plan to have them pose. For example, if the morning sun will be streaming in a particular window, you need to know that and avoid that spot.

Plan where you want furniture to be. Move things around to suit your goals. (I rearrange clients' furniture all the time.) A couch is a great idea, since they will be comfortable and you can vary their head heights.

Bring a portable DVD player to help the younger ones sit in one place. Position it on a table just behind you as you shoot, if you need to

Have the clothing and exact position of each kid worked out in your mind before you come for the sitting.

Settle on ONE location before hand. Don't let the client talk you into "taking some photos in this room, and some other photos in that room, just to see..." You will have a huge challenge with the ages of these kids as it is.

I find, with a kid about age 5 or younger, I have about twenty minutes of their attention and that's about it. No time for experimenting or trying different things. You need to know exactly what you want to do as soon as you ask them to pose.

Feel free to resort to bribery. Talk to the parents beforehand about the fact that you'd like to bring a small toy for each of them. Show it to them beforehand and let them know that it will be theirs after you're done ("if they're good".)

It would still be better if you can persuade the family to go with four separate portraits, though!

Way to go, Patty!
 

Did I mention the husband is Chairman of the Board of the Diabetes Assoc in Cleveland - my biggest client to date! This came from a Diabetes Golf Tournament Fund Raiser. I was so suprised to hear that the Chairman of the Board bid for my work!
Patty[/QUOTE]

Patty, you will just do wonderfully!!! Your donations inspire me. I've had a very limited response on painting donations. Yours hit the bull's eye!

Carol

Thanks for the advice Michelle, I am taking notes from all of you and I just revisited your website, you have such lovely paintings of young children. All I know right now is that there are four children under the age of eight!

Thanks, Carol. I find I really enjoy the auctions. I was pointed to a great organization called SMILE and will be donating a graphite portrait this month. It is for single moms in Cleveland who want to further their education. They raise money and offer scholarships. One of my friends is a psychologist and donates her time to group therapy for these women. I never have time to donate, so a portrait is the best I can do with my busy schedule. I have had two occasions when the person who won the bid never cashed in on their portrait. That is very frustrating!

What a great thread - Patty, I'm so glad you got this commission! I just have an additional couple of thoughts:
- If you end up doing a group portrait, you might consider having the children doing something together or having a focal point revolving around an object. Alex Tyng did this recently and I think she was very successful.
- Again, if you're doing a group shot, be very aware of body language in the children: which ones push each other away, which ones like to be held - any clues to relationship to one another will resonate in your composition.
- To me, there is a marked distinction between "formal" and "informal" family compositions - it is good to get clear understandings about this from the client before the shoot. Clothing sometimes (not always) helps determine the flavor of the composition.

I hope you post your results here! :)