Basic pastel questions
 

Hello,

I am new to this site. Thank you Chris Saper for telling me about it. I dont know much about pastels and would appreciate any help regarding these questions. Please keep in mind my goal is to achieve a very real, blended portrait. I am using Rembrandt soft pastels.

1) When painting a light-skinned white person what color of paper is recommended, or does it matter?

2) Do all fixatives change the color of the pastels? I have been using Blair.

3) With the type of portrait I wish to create, is the fixative used as the last step or at differnt stages?

4) If the fixative by accident touches a part of the paper with out pastel on it does this effect its ability to hold layers of color? If so what can I do to stop this?

5) What texture and name brand of paper is reccomended to create this soft real apprenance?

6) What step by step practice book is on the market to help me get the results I am looking for?

7) Do any of the artist offer or know of online classes?

Thank you, Winnie

Pastel
 

Hi Winnie,

I use Canson paper on the smooth side for pastels. (There's an exhibit here in Geneva on Jean-Etienne Liotard's (18th century) pastels, many of which are painted on parchment...beautiful surface!).

Midtones are good for light-skinned faces, although this depends on the lighting.
I build up pastels first with pastel pencils (Othello), then nu-pastels (that are harder and can be sharpened), and the finally with a variety of soft pastels ranging from the harder Rembrandt, to Schmincke, and finally the softest, Sennelier.

Fixative used lightly shouldn't darken the colours too much (although sometimes the lights need to be touched up somewhat)...it's often used anytime to restore some tooth to the surface.

Good luck!
Gwenneth

Hi Winnie and Gwenneth!

I am also a fan of the smooth side of the paper...I don't like the "paper towel effect" of the waffle-like texture of the other side! I have posted a picture for critique only once (see Mary Lynn in Pastel under critiques). You can see there that I too am a pastelist who likes to blend. I don't find that the darker tones of paper affect much the skin tone of a very light person...just takes a little more effort to overcome the tone of the paper, I guess.

I'm hardly an expert, though (as you will see if you read on). Actually, I guess I could use some advice myself. A couple of times I've had problems with the pastel "disappearing" or "lifting off" the paper after completion and spraying with Grumbacher Myston workable in matte (I usually don't spray at different stages).

I would take the piece back (this happened twice, and one lady drove me NUTS with this!) and touch it up, then spray again. This one lady, though, kept insisting the piece was continuously losing pastel. Some of her perceptions I feel were imagined, but, in fact, I DID detect (in both cases) more paper tones appearing through (especially noticable in the lighter areas) upon closer inspection.

So, could my opening comment about darker toned paper be the cause of this? Or too much fixative? How about humidity levels?? These problems arose when I was living in south-central Kentucky. I'm back home in southern New Jersey, and the summertime humidity levels here are similar...somewhat soggy! I live near the shore, too. I don't recall, though, if these pieces were framed before "losing" the pastel. I think the one was, and the other lady who drove me nuts waited quite a while before having the piece framed, and then had it unframed to bring back.

Thanks for letting me voice my concerns on your thread Winnie. Sorry I couldn't be of much help! Also, I use Rembrandts, Van Goghs, Conte pastel pencils, thinner pastel pencils, a couple of Windsor Newtons, some Nu Pastels, Grumbachers (which I picked up on sale at Pearl and haven't used yet), and the fat, square, cheap ones whose name escapes me at the moment.

Did I mention?? Go to yard sales! I bought an unused set of 24 Grumbachers (an old set, too) for $1.00!! Last year, I picked up at another yard sale some vine charcoal, pens and nibs, paints for my husband, etc. Do, the moral is, you never know what you'll find!

Meredith

Hi Winnie,

Here are my thoughts on the questions you pose:

1. The color of the paper is mainly dependent on the value design you want for your painting, and certainly whether it will be a vignette. If you will be covering the entire surface, a toned paper works well when it represents the dominant value. If you have a lot of darks, it is, as you know, difficult to cover a light ground well, unless you use a surface (like Wallis paper) that takes an underpainting well. If your piece is predominantly dark, it works well to go with a little darker value. If I am underpainting, I underpaint directly on the white Wallis paper. If I am painting the entire surface, and also if I am painting a vignette, I will typically use a middle or middle light grayed-down green surface, regardless of the value of my subject's skin. It is a rare circumstance that you would show anyone's skin without warmth in its hue, and therefore the green acts as a complement to the warmth of human skin, and looks wonderful when it shows through. It adds a cool element that can be very subtle, but very important,as well.

In painting a vignette, both color and value of the surface count. I prefer to stay with cooler colors, whether green, red, etc, and desaturated colors. However, I have used yellows and ochres when my subject is primarily cool. There's no substitue for experimenting!

In summary, I think the design, value plan and mood of the piece are much more important than the value of the subject's skin.

2/3/4. I have had such poor experiences with fixatives, I don't use them and can't help.

5. You can get a velvety smooth surface with Canson (yes, use the smooth side), La Carte (Sennelier), Art Spectrum, and Sabretooth. I think the La Carte is easiest to control.Wallis has a very stong tooth, but if you build layers, you can get a smooth look as well. Ther may be others as well, I just don't have any experience with them.

6. There are not a lot of technique oriented books out there, try Harley Brown's "Eternal Secrets for Every Artist". Wende Caporale's, "Painting Children's Portraits in Pastel" has a number of step-by-step examples, and she focuses on the light-skinned subject. Best though, is to order Daniel Greene's video tape, Erica, as you can actually watch what is going on.

7. I don't know of any on-line classes, but check out the Pastel Journal, which publishes in every issue an enormous list of pastel-focused workshops. Identify the painters you admire most and then attend their workshops.

Good luck amd welcome to the Forum!

Chris

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could have a definition of terminology that I have heard and don't have a complete understanding of the meaning in terms of pastels.

Chris, I first read the terms in your book, which I find absolutely refreshing. Thank you.

The terms being "saturated" and "unsaturated". I understand the terms in reference to wetness but what is the meaning in reference to a dry medium as pastel? The best I can come up with in the dictionary is: Saturated: containing no white; of the greatest intensity. Soo, Unsaturated would mean color containing a great deal of white? Forgive my ignorance. I would just like to understand. Geri

P. S. And where would one find the video from Daniel Greene, "Erica"

Hi Geri,

Saturated in this sense means the purest possible color; sometimes it is referred to as color intensity. The most intense, or most saturated colors are located along the outer edge of any color wheel. When you mix any color with its complement, it starts to become less intense (pure) and more neutral. When two complements are mixed in balance, you will get lovely neutrals, that are called complementary grays. (Not gray in the sense of what happens when you mix black and white). Colors that are located somewhere in the interior of the color wheel are desaturated...those in the very center are completely desaturated..in other words, the complementary grays. So saturated here has nothing to do with wetness.

The addition of white or black to a pure color diminshes its intensity, although not in the same rich way that the complement does.

Ordering info for Erica is in my Recommended Resources (Appendix A), Signilar 800-205-4904

Good luck!

Hi Chris,

Ahhhhh! Thank you. In my oil days we just called it pure color or greyed down color, understanding completely that one would grey with its complement. Unless, of course, you wanted a special color made with blacks, whites, paynes etc.

Thanks for your quick response. I was very confused. I have to get up with all the new terminology. Thanks again. geri

Pastellists would be well advised to do lightfastness testing of their colors, if they are at all concerned for the future permanence of their paintings. Golden sells a lightfastness test kit that makes it easy, if you have a south-facing window available. I have been conducting some tests for ASTM, and it has become glaringly obvious to me that the popular notion that pastels are permanent is not necessarily realistic. The rate and degree of fading varies tremendously from color to color and from manufacturer to manufacturer.

ASTM will be writing a lightfastness standard for pastels, and much more testing remains to be done in the process. You will be hearing more about this in the future.

I enjoyed working in pastel from time to time, but until I have a very good idea which colors I can trust not to fade, I won't be using them again. Too much effort goes to waste when our creations change too rapidly into something different.

Virgil Elliott

Hi Meredith,

About the pastel flaking away, Ralph Mayer has an interesting paragraph in his book, 'The Artist's Handbook of Materials and Techniques', where he states that if too much fixative is applied, the pastel will adhere rather to the fixative than to the support, it seems that in this case the fixative would actually pull the pastel from the paper.

I've also witnessed a real nightmare at a clients home (who was understandably ordering oils this time). A pastel that she'd ordered several years back had been framed with the glass directly on the surface (without a mat!!), and, you guessed it! With static, the pastel layer had clung to the glass. Still, when all the rules are respected, isn't it a beautiful technique?

Best wishes!
Gwenneth

Administrator's Note: Click on book title to see it at Amazon.com.

Gwenneth,

I agree....pastels are a "good thing"! :) I'll have to check out Mr Mayer's book...I regret to say that I'm not up on all of the latest technology. Although I am not usually involved in the framing aspect, I always educate the client as to the importance of NEVER letting glass touch the surface, and that if a mat-less look is desired, make sure the framer elevates the glass by building up a "buffer-zone" behind the frame, between it and the artwork. It very well could be a case of too much fixative, thinking that more was needed to keep the darned pastels in place! :oops: But, now I know...thank you for your response...tsch

Meredith,

The reference to a south-facing window is specific to the Northern Hemisphere, where a south-facing window would receive direct sunlight. In the Southern Hemisphere, of course, a north-facing widow would be the one to use. Direct sun is an accelerated-aging test, which gives us an idea which colors would be most likely to change in normal indoor light over a longer period of time, and which colors would not.

The Lightfastness Test System is a kit sold by Golden Artist Colors, Inc., and contains three Blue Wool Control Cards, along with other paraphernalia and complete instructions for conducting lightfastness testing. For pastels, I've found it is better to make my samples on a paper more suitable for pastels than the forms supplied in the kit, and to make somewhat larger samples and masks, but otherwise to follow the procedures as recommended in the instructions. Golden may be reached by telephone at: (606) 847-6154. The kit is not terribly expensive.

When artists make their own pastels, they can use the most lightfast pigments if they so choose, as some do, and have done in the past, but commercial manufacturers of today avoid using the more toxic pigments in pastels out of concern for the safety of the consumers and of the employees at the manufacturing plants, as well as to protect themselves from product liability lawsuits. However, that's only a part of the picture. Because we cannot do much in the way of color mixing with pastels the way we can with oils, many more colors are needed. Manufacturers, in order to make available a full selection of colors, sometimes choose pigments of less than optimal lightfastness to achieve this full range of colors, tints and shades. This has always been a factor with pastels, and is not unique to modern times. Most museums keep their pastels in darker rooms than the oil paintings, to limit the amount of light exposure, out of concern for possible fading of some of the colors. Today there is a much wider range of pigments from which to choose, including many of higher lightfastness than was previously the case, so manufacturers can (and the best of them do) produce more lightfast pastels if the consumers (artists) insist on them. However, if pastellists continue in blissful ignorance to issues of permanence, or seem to be unconcerned with it, the manufacturers have no reason to improve the archival qualities of the products they sell, and they will not spend money to change the way they've been doing things.

The belief that pastels are permanent is a popular one with pastel artists, but it is not based on much more than wishful thinking, and is harmful because it does not compel people to push for better materials. If we demand it, the manufacturers will respond.

Virgil Elliott

Virgil,

This really has me mystified, as it's my understanding that pastels are made with exactly the same pigments as oils.

I can't imagine that oils or resins could protect this pigment from UV rays, any more than gum tragacanth would, so I imagine that this window test, if conducted fairly with both pastels and oils containing exactly the same pigment, would fade both of them equally.

Ambroise Vollard, in his 'Memories of an art merchant', describes Degas actually putting his pastels out on the window's edge to fade, as he found the colours too bright...what irony when we see his works now in specially darkened museum rooms.

Best wishes!
Gwenneth

Virgil,

Sorry, I posted my message without seeing your more elaborate explanation. This indeed is very interesting. Does this fading include pastels from top brands?

Gwenneth

Gwenneth,

I can only say that if you test your own set, you'll have a pretty good idea what will hold up, after a few months of sun exposure.

Virgil

Hi Virgil,

Did I understand you right that Unison didn't have any pastels that faded or they just didn't show any that faded? Thanks Tammy

Tammy,

I did not have a full set of Unison pastels to test. I may soon, however, and will probably run another test, or series of tests.

I suggest all pastellists buy the kit from Golden and test the sticks in their own paintboxes. It is not terribly difficult; just time-consuming when making the samples. I draw up the excess powder with a vacuum cleaner nozzle held directly above the sample, so one color does not sully any other. Testing what you have is the best way to gain an understanding of what is going to hold up, and what is likely to fade. I suspect you will be surprised at some of the results.

Virgil Elliott

Hey Virgil!

WOW! Boy do I have a lot to learn! A couple of comments/questions....

-Referring to Gwenneth's posting, if indeed oils and pastels consist of the same pigments (I'm trusting her on this because I haven't a clue), does the oil or resin in the paint protect the pigment? Are these tests conducted on oils too? I don't use oils yet...just curious.

-Is there glass available at frame shops which protects the piece from harmful light? There are absolutely CLEAR glass sunglasses which protect the eyes from harmful UV rays...is there such a thing existing in the frame world which wouldn't alter the appearance of the picture behind it? I realize that special glass is just a Band-Aid solution, but until there's an uprising in the pastel community, this could be the only solution. I love working with pastels...I'd hate to give them up.

Thank you for your responses here. Is it just ME, or is there not enough discussion here about pastels? I guess I need to post another of mine for critique, because I feel I need the advice, AND I feel that pastels kind of take a back seat to oils sometimes. Thanks again Virgil! Take care...

Meredith,

There are oil paints that fade, too, as fade-prone pigments will do whether they are in oil, watercolor, pastel or whatever. Alizarin crimson is one example. Sap green is another. No medium provides enough protection to keep a fugitive pigment from fading. But some pigments that are used in other media are not used in pastels because there is greater health risk with them in powdered form, so the manufacturers use substitute pigments to make those colors. Sometimes the pigments they choose do not hold up as well on exposure to light. Then there is the problem of not being able to mix colors in pastel, which makes it necessary for pastel sets to have many more colors than a full palette of oil paints would contain, and manufacturers are compelled to use certain pigments of less than optimum lightfastness in certain places, in order to offer the widest variety of colors, tints and shades.

UV filter glass might help a little, but I wouldn't count on it making enough of a difference to be worth much. More to the point would be to determine which colors, of all the manufacturers' products on the market today, hold up best, and stick to those colors as much as possible.

I'm currently working on clarifying the picture for pastel painters, and on putting a fire under the manufacturers' seats to compel them to look for more lightfast pigments to replace the more fugitive ones they've been using, but my task would be easier, and good results more likely, if the pastel societies would be more cooperative with ASTM, and would participate in this effort.

I think too many pastellists are horrified at the prospect that much of the work they've already done is apt to fade, and they would rather stick their head in the sand and proceed in a state of denial than to acknowledge the truth of the matter and work to improve the medium. If they could see my test panels, I think they'd be shocked into realizing the importance of what I'm doing, and might then be more inclined to help.

Virgil Elliott

Hello Everyone,

A question about softness in pastel.

Comparatively, where does Unison stand in softness. Compared to Rembrandt, Schmicke, and Sennelier.

I love my Nu-Pastel. I am finding the set of Rembrandts recently purchased are feeling scratchy. I am sure it is me and my lack of knowledge. I try to break a stick to use the side and it will crumble instead of break and they are scratcing the Nu-Pastel with streaks and lines for the removed color. I never experienced this with the purchase of single sticks, just with the set.

Also, paper. I am presently using Canson Mi-Tientes. Is there another paper similar to the texture of the smooth side of Canson that would withstand underpainting. I have played around with turp and pastel (I know that's a bad thing) on Canson. I sure like the consistency but from what I read it is not a good idea on Canson.

Sorry this is lengthy but any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Geri

Hi Geri,

I see the Unison as in between the Rembrandts and the very soft Schminkes and Senneliers.

For papers, try the Art Spectrum, relatively low in tooth, and of course, the toothier Wallis paper. The Wallis doesn't buckle when wet; the Art Spectrum folks say underpainting works well on their paper, too. The Canson will ripple (as I am sure you know) and is too fragile to manipulate wet, so that it is more likely to tear.

Good luck!

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your response. In a previous post, you stated you enjoyed using a grey-greene pastel paper. Since I began pastels, I have basically undercoated a portrait in 3 values of green. I am not quite sure how I started doing this, but enjoyed the tones of the greens showing through the over painting.

I was wondering if you could share what paper that is as Canson has no paper color listed as "grey-green." I have been using Canson felt grey and their tan which appears to have a hint of a grey-green value.

Also, regarding the underpainting on paper. Yes, the Canson buckles with applied moisture. Although, just experimenting with liquids, the turp and pastel dry flat and leave a very enjoyable texture. My only fear is over a period of time what the turp would do to the paper.

Thanks again,

Geri

Hi Geri,

Try the Canson color "Sand". I have used the Felt Grey (I recall it being warmer than the Flannel Grey), and also like it very much.

The correspnding color in the La Carte paper is "Light Grey", a very warm greenish-gray.

Keep in mind that many (probably most) colored papers will fade, so if you leave any of it uncovered, it is very likely to change over time.

Virgil Elliott

I have noticed that this fading does occur over time. However, I can't say that it has ever been evident to me unless I have had occasion to open the pastel, perhaps to clean the mat, and move the matboard. I am not sure how effectively UV glass might retard or prevent the fading, though.

Chris,

UV filter glass would help a little, but don't expect miracles from it. If you want to leave parts of the ground showing, it might be better to color it with acrylic paints or gesso mixed with acrylic paints whose pigments are rated as ASTM Lightfastness I before painting over it in pastel. Golden makes a toothy gesso especially for pastels that looks to me to be a very good product. Before I'd trust any pastel paper not to fade, I'd test it to see, by putting a sample of it in a south-facing window for a year or so, with half of it covered with a black mask, and the other half exposed. Things can change drastically in 50-100 years in normal light that do not show up so noticeably in just a few years. Direct sun is a good accelerated-aging test for lightfastness.

Virgil Elliott

Dear Chris and Virgil,

Thank you both for your valuable suggestions and taking the time to make them.

I enjoy both Canson Felt Grey and Tan. I certainly will try the LaCarte Light Grey.
The idea of acrylic and gesso intrigue me and I will certainly experiment.

Thank you both again.

Geri

Hi Winnie,

It's been a while since I created this piece (about 7 years), so bear with me on trying to explain it:

I was able to get a finely blended effect on the portrait below by using a very soft brush (like a make-up brush or large watercolor mop). First, I drew a very light outline drawing in white pastel pencil (on burgundy paper). Then applied soft pastels to mass in the large shapes of color, trying to cover the whole paper to get an idea of value and color relationships. Not really worried about detail at this point, just relationships. Then, gradually went in and used hard Nu-Pastels to bring out some details, until finally ending with hard pastel pencils for the fine details (can't remember the brand name of these).

Between each step, actually with each application of pastel, I blended them using the brush. I'm pretty sure I used the smooth side of Canson paper. By the time I was done, there was a HUGE pile of pastel dust on my easel and the floor.

I've heard that blending is the big "no no" in pastels and not sure how "against the rules" this technique is, but hey, it worked for me. I know that Daniel Greene applies color directly and doesn't manipulate the pastel once it touches the paper working from dark to light in stages. His portraits are very vibrant, with a full range of light to dark.

Hope this helps.