Visitors' poll
 

You'll be able to vote one-time, but you can make more than one choice. You can also post an explanation by clicking the post reply button.

Once you vote, the results will appear on this page, otherwise you can click on "view poll results."

Hello Cynthia,

I think that this poll is a good initiative and I hope you can better understand why guests are so numerous.

I sometimes visit the forum without logging in, because I do not intend to post anything and usually because I am using another computer than my own. I must admit I did not think it was necessary to log in each time I came here. Please tell us if it is annoying. I will then do my best to do it!

Sincerely,
Karine

Karine,

It's not necessary to log in and it's not annoying. It's just that we regularly show a few members logged in and a huge number of guests. We're just curious to know why.

Most people alllow cookies on their machine so that when they come back to the site, you are already logged in. To take advantage of the cookies, you simply don't bother to log out when you are finished.

I love the work I see on here and would love to participate; I think I could learn a lot here, but I do mostly still-lifes and not very many portraits. I'm afraid I won't be allowed to be a member because of my paucity of portraits at this time.

I chose "other reasons" in the poll
 

Hi, all. I'm a long time lurker. I read several art forums regularly, but I don't post much. I've intended to submit an application for membership, but I procrastinated. You can see one of my portraits (Bouguereau copy) here:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_OXnY8GCthRQ/...-h/gabbby9.jpg

and a couple more here:

http://texmac.blogspot.com/

I haven't posted all that much on that blog either! Anyway, thanks to all of you for the interesting posts and information. I really enjoy looking at all of your work.

Diane MacRae

Technically challenged
 

I enjoy the forum very much and feel that I have learned a great deal from my "lurking." I paint portraits from life on a weekly basis; open studio day is a time I look forward to all week. Though I would be somewhat anxious about the judging, the primary intimidation factor for me would be posting digital images of my paintings in order to participate fully! To say I find it both stressful and time-consuming is a definite understatement. With my few attempts, I have often completely failed to translate the painting to a digital image.

Forgot password!
 

Hi,
I am a member but have forgotten my user name and password! What to do? Should I rejoin or is there a way of finding out my present ? (Family matters etc. kept me away too long.)
I love the forum and plan to donate as I can!
Thanks,
Rod Lamkey

Ron,

Your user name is your name. I assume Rod is a nickname for Rodney, so if Rod Lamkey doesn't work, try Rodney Lampkey if you think there's any chance you registered like that.

Regarding password, I have no access to that. You would have to take a guess and when/if it does not work, you will be taken to a page where you can click an option for those that forgot their password. This will allow you to reset it. However, if your email address has changed since you registered, you will have to have me change that for you. There is an option under Your Controls to change it, but you have to first be logged on.

If you want more people to participate, you have to allow them to participate. There is alot of middle ground between the current state and anarchy. You could have threads that are open to discussion without any rigorous approval. If the language gets to saucy, let the moderators delete the post.

I'd like to pursue portrait painting but I consider myself a student at best and most of my work shows it. I enjoy reading, learning, and viewing others' works but I can't yet make any meaningful contribution to the discussions on techniques and portraiture.

I believe I could find a couple of my works capable of securing my membership but the whole process, even the idea of it, doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps it's because I'd be gaming the system with my best. Perhaps it's a fear of not being accepted anyway. Or perhaps it's because I've never wanted to post to ask questions but to make contributions to threads on cameras, books, searches, materials (sources and references) etc. where I had the very answers others were seeking.

There's very little to gain for the effort of joining, especially since there several open forums with (some of the very same) skilled, knowledgable, artists available to answer.

I am a fiber artist . I stop in to see the work that is being done in the field of Portrait paintings along with other art forums. I think all artists in all mediums struggle with many of the same issues. I often want to comment , usually to voice support and encouragement! I love the work that is featured here and indeed have improved upon my own skills with some of the advice and comments I have read here.
Karen http://threadstory.blogspot.com/

I'm also a "frequent lurker". I really enjoy the forum and stop in once or twice a week; it's intelligent, the work posted is very good,( often excellent), and it's nice to visit a forum of dedicated, trained artists. There's a different attitude amoung the members - it's serious and professional. I have no issue w/ the process of jurying in members, I beleive it's what keeps the integrity of the forum intact.

I've been a serious art student for several years on a part time basis, and just recently went to full time study. I just started studying the figure and portraits in the past 6 months and I don't beleive I will focus entirely on portrait work, so I don't see myself as a canidate for membership. Many thanks for having this forum - it's great, even for the folks who aren't registered members.

Materese Roche
www.ghostwoodstudio.com

I'm glad you find it valuable. The jurying process became necessary when many were registering and posting who had not even a beginning of drawing basics - the Forum was growing so fast that the demands for critiques started to overtax our resources. Those professionals who do critiques were and still are few in numbers and their contributory nature and time became over-taxed by posters who likely would never become professional. So, we had to make a decision. I think that some see the Forum as a separate, stand-alone entity. However, from the time I conceived it, it was always intended to be a reflection of the main site.

A suggestion - perhaps there are compromises that would allow those who are shy, and those who aren't sure they're ready, to ease into participating without introducing a burden upon the forum.

Limit posting to the the purely professional forums to those who have been juried and made full members. This would include the professional business and critique forums where unprofessional behavior and responses could be distracting if not outright harmful.

Allowed the unjuried to become limited members with priviledges that allow them to reply to existing threads (in the remaining forums) but not to start new threads.

Perhaps allow a single forum to be completely open to posting and thread creation by limited members but make this forum password protected like the critique section is now. This would allow limited members to introduce topics or questions that others could address, but it would provide some protection from search engines.

would like to join
 

I would like to join but I do not have anything done from life at this time, only photos. So to meet the requirements, I will have to wait until I get access to a model. I have enjoyed following the forum and learned a great deal from it.

I love that you are giving those of us who "lurk" the opportunity to speak! I've stopped into the forum regularly for a couple of years now.

I think you are smart to have a juried selection process, for just the reasons you listed...too many people joining who are at the beginning stage. I'm sure you want to encourage beginners, but their needs are very different from the pros and you can't accommodate all. I find that just being allowed to visit and read is very educational, so thank you for continuing to allow non-members to do so. I do wish you hadn't made the medium-specific critique forums members-only, I miss those.

I don't have a sense that your administration or moderation are overly heavy-handed, though not being subject to them I guess I can't say for sure. All forums need structure...I am watching another forum I am a member of self-destruct because having no rules is highly prized by many in the group, to the point of chaos.

I enjoy portraiture but am not likely to pursue it professionally, and therefore don't think I would be a regular or helpful member. I also do not think my work is ready for a juried admission. If all of that changes, I might apply. In the meantime, I shall simply continue to read, learn, and admire.

Thank you!

JM

My post right above, I couldn't edit it...I just figured out how to access the medium-specific critique forums, duh! How did I miss that?

No problem. There's a lot to absorb here.

Visitor poll
 

Hi. I voted "shy...", which I suppose is true for me both online and in life. I'm more of a listener than a talker, I guess. But it's also that I wouldn't get past the jury process, as I'm not a portrait painter. I am a professional painter, though, and I visit several art forums both for entertainment and information. I've only recently found this forum, and so far I'm impressed by the overall content, civility, and professional quality of the discourse here. I find I'm trusting of the information I glean from here maybe more than on some other forums. Because of that, I do wish there was greater participation and activity. Perhaps that is both the strength and weakness of limiting membership to juried portrait artists. But I certainly wouldn't advocate change.

As an aside, I was a freelance illustrator for many years before switching to fine art. As such, I have long been an admirer of the illustration work of Marvin Mattleson. I was not aware of his work as a portrait artist, and was very pleasantly surprised to see him here as such an active participant. To me, that again speaks to the quality of the discourse here.

Thank you!

Thank you for your vote of confidence. Many artists who are active professionals simply do not have the time to participate and some simply don't have that teaching inclination - however, we are always hopeful that more pros will become involved. I do think you will find that many, many subjects have already been addressed over the years - thus decreasing the possible new subjects that could be addressed in the future.

We have gone thru our crisis periods, mostly precipitated by conflicts of personalities and communication styles. We've always asked that artists state their methods without denigrading the methods of others and to keep posts diplomatic and respectful of others. Unfortunately, through some incidents where this was not honored, we have lost some valuable contributors.

I consider myself an accomplised painter. (I work mostly in oil.) But few of my works are bona fide portraits. I haven't attempted the jury process for this reason. I gain a lot from reading the various forums, and would consider occasionally posting, if it were permitted.

I respect your jury process, and think it's a good idea. I know this sounds unkind, but some other art websites are diluted in their helpfulness to the experienced painter by all of the beginning painter postings and questions. Those have their place, surely. But the seasoned painter grows tired of wading through those posts, and moves elsewhere. I'd rather continue to "lurk" around your website than see the jury process so changed as to cause this problem on your site.

Thanks for a wonderful site. One day I just may feel it's appropriate for me to submit work to the jury.

Some thoughts from a reject, and a note to Sharon
 

When I applied some time ago I didn't bother to take photos of my latest work, and submitted two pieces that were not representative of my best, although they were better than the puffy cheeked, hard edged, frontal flash, under modeled portraits you see all over the net. Anyway, I didn't think it would matter, because I felt I was a little more advanced than some of the posters I have seen here in the past (although most of the posters are more capable than me). My figurative and portrait work is good enough to have been accepted in several juried shows.

I was a little surprised at the rejection, but apparently the standards have gone up. I enjoy the lively discussions, and feel I have something to contribute. I fell like I know some of the artists here, I have read them so much over the years. Like Sharon, for example.

Sharon: since I haven't been able to answer your posts, I just want to take this opportunity to say I totally agree with you on working from live models.

Now, back to the subject at hand:

I still don't think that the forum should be open to those who lack very basic skills. That would load down the forum. But maybe consider an "apprentice" designation for a limited number of members.

Thanks for listening.

I picked "other." I like to read the posts, but I don't need to participate. Mostly I come in to see what people are working on. There are some beautiful pieces out there.

Lisa Gloria

I have no qualms with the jury process but I find it *extremely* short sighted to not have at least one section of the forum where non-members can post.

Perhaps the following will help in regards to your statement of being shortsighted.

I think one thing that is perhaps not clear to many is that the Forum is not and never was intended to be an entity unto itself like WetCanvas. From what I know of them, their primary mission is an artist community. Here, the Forum is simply an offshoot of the main Stroke of Genius web site and is intended to reflect the main site - simply a side benefit for professional portrait painters.

So, we are not trying to be everything to everyone. For a long time, the main site existed without a Forum - the Forum was and is not a necessary entity in order for the main site to achieve it's purpose. My business is the main site - not the Forum. Except for the donations that come in and the bit of money I make on orders from the links shown in the Forum, it is not really an income producing entity - yet it does require my time and attention.

Perhaps many visitors think that once installed, the Forum requires little to no maintenance or time from me. However, even apart from the jury process, there are regular administravtive and technical issues to address and maintenance/upgrades to be done.

The other thing you may find of interest is that originally it was only going to be for the artists who are listed on the main site - simply a benefit for the member artists and not open to the general public. However, I decided to change that direction and open it to other portrait artist professionals.

Given all this, what are you looking for that you are not getting? Are you saying have a separate section just for non-members? Or are you saying allow non-members to post in exisiting sections? Would this benefit other readers and in what way?

I voted shy, mostly because I am somewhat introverted and enjoy being a fly on the wall (although if you were to meet me in person you might not agree as I can appear extroverted - INTP). I hate conflict and fear that someone might take something I say in the wrong way or attack my work, which would be unpleasant and not good for business if a client or potential client were to stumble onto this site. I am also concerned about clients seeing critiques, whether they are valid or not, since I want to be seen as someone who knows what they are doing (even though we all know that artists, if they are smart, should continue to grow in their abilities).

I am also not sure at this point where my work would fit in. I consider myself a full-time professional, and although I am not as experienced as many of the painters here, I don't know whether I should be asking for critiques or giving them and I don't want to step on any toes. Since you mention that you don't want people to join unless they participate, I want to feel more confident about how I can contribute before joining.

I believe you are correct in having a jurying process for participation.

I do wish to thank you for this wonderful site. I have enjoyed very much reading the information provided by so many wonderful portrait artists. I believe that anyone who takes advantage of the site will improve their abilities whether they participate or not.

I had no idea that "guests" could participate in this forum other than to read.

My work was juried and not considered good enough for membership, I think 2004 or 2005..

Generally, guests cannot post. This is a special section open to guests.

Generally guests cannot post. This is a special section opened to guests.

As your work progresses, you're always welcome to reapply.

Believe it or not, I'm considered an introvert too - INFJ, so I understand. I also hate conflict and it's one of the most stressful things when it happens on the Forum.

Others have expressed this concern, which is why we put the password on the critiques section.

I guess that sounds rather harsh. But, each applicant takes the time of the Board members to view, discuss, decide and then approve or not. There are tons of very qualified people who have been accepted in the past and then never posted anything. It's curious and a bit discouraging after we put the time in to do the review and approval. We do like having new members since it opens up new and potentially valuable dialog. Participating could simply be asking a question that when answered, others learn from also. We realize that we are all very busy and participation doesn't have to mean a regular commitment.

Thank you, it's always nice to know that one's work is valued.

Sitting in limbo, limbo, limbo...
 

I checked "other." The process of getting accepted or declined here seems to have some "kinks" in it, or maybe it's just me - I'm not certain.

I tried registering once a long time back, since I enjoyed reading the information here, and found threads that I felt I could contribute to. I have a great deal of experience in art and am a well mannered fellow, so I figured I could manage the decorum. Unfortunately, I never got a reply back of any sort to my attempt at registering, so I just assumed I was declined.

A few days back (I think it's been over a week now) I thought I'd just try again to register, but as of yet still haven't gotten a response - maybe it just takes more time. Those folks must be very busy with more important tasks, etc...

Also, since I never received a reply, I never bothered to try logging in, but just now I discover that I actually could log in and be recognized, unfortunatelty I'm still not allowed to enter replies, even to this thread. I had to log out in order to write up this entry.

I understand you're reasoning for all these obstacles, but it just amounts to a big pile of frustration, which in the end is not worth the effort. Plus, in all honesty, there's this slight taint of elitism on SOG's part at requiring new members to go through all the process, however well intended or necessary it may be. I feel your insistance at scholarship of your members is unnecessary, to be frank. Inexperienced people will be intimiated without that - just look at all the "too shy" responses you're getting here. It's only informal talk and opinions that we're sharing after all. If an inexperienced person speaks up, they can be politely educated. Maybe there's some history to your reasons for these restrictions that I'm not aware of, however.

When a bar has been set, there needs to be an obvious reason for a person to want to climb over it, hoping you understand my metaphor. As nice as this place is, it's not exclusive to it's content. There are other places to go to that aren't so tedious to enter.

Whew. I do appreciate the opportunity to finally speak. Thanks.

Please send me an email using the Contact Us link all the way at the bottom of each screen and I will see what I can determine regarding this. Include the name you used to register. I know we do have one applicant still in process. My first question would be to ask if you did send in two portrait images in the 2nd step of the process.

Sometimes, in fact, it does take more time for one reaon or another. One of the Board members might be out of town for a portrait commission, for example, and we're awaiting their return. In other cases, the Board might be split on whether to approve or not and conversations carry on for a bit.

Until the 2nd step of the registratioin has been completed and the Board has approved, you can log in but not post. However, you should be able to write and post in this section. Maybe logging in when there is not a final approval is an odd no-man's land and that explains it.

Scholarship? I'm not sure what you mean by this. We don't have any particular educational requirement. Elitism? I don't personally feel elitist. I suppose any group that juries could always be accused of being elitist. Maybe it's just the jury process that you find elitist, but without more information, it would be difficult to respond more specifically.

It really is more than informal talk I think. The Critiques is really the biggest area of stress when there is no jury process. If you've not been here since the beginning, there have been some who registered before the jury process was instituted and requested Critique and the work was at such a beginning level that no one giving Critiques had the time to lead the person just up to the basics needed to make a good portrait.

As stated earlier, there are not that many people who actually give Critiques. Often it tends to be the same members over and over who are contributing. There truly is a limited resource for this function and those who offer critique truly want to help. But, when there is an overabundance of people sometimes demanding critiques, it can become overwhelming.

Yes, sometimes people get demanding. They might post a critique and if no one responds within 24 hours, some have gotten upset. Everyone has to understand that other members have busy lives, careers and usually families and are all generous volunteers. Without a jury process, sometimes the work is at such a beginning level that those who might normally critique just don't know where to start - what do you tell this person? Then if someone gets bold and says "go back to drawing basics and master that first" - then some get insulted. Just think how much those who do critiques are putting themselves on the line - it can be stressful for them too.

As one Guest stated earlier, they are happy about the jury process so they don't have to weed through a lot to find posts that they find valuable.

The bottom line is, no matter what rules are made in any group, it's not possible to please everyone as much as we might like to.

Well, I'm glad you feel better now. ;)

Tried to register when I first discovered the forum. (about a year ago), The process had some sort of techno-glitch and it didn't complete. From there, after many attempts to retry and/or email a real person, I gave up. Never got any sort of reply - automated or human. I have continued to be a lurker since most of the benefit can be realized this way.

Jeff Ott
[email protected]

A
 

I'm not a member yet because I do not have time to participate to your great forums. My intension is to registered one day. I really appreciate your good work. Thank you for what your doing for the artists.

I don't have digital images to submit and while I think I've done some decent portraits, my main love is landscapes. But the forum is very interesting and much if it still applies to other things. Also, I paint with acrylics which are very much in the minority! I love the look of oils but I'm so allergic to them. Even the water misc oils smell too much for me to handle.

Thanks for a great forum though!

I only do occasional portraits - the bulk of my work is in other genres. The rules for becoming a member state that new members are wanted ONLY IF they plan to post portrait work on a regular basis.

I have plenty of portrait commission images that I can post, but I find I am having a hard time finding the time between commissions to do the live portrait needed for the jurying process. Because I do children exclusively, I work from photos. It would be wrong to ask a child to sit for a portrait session. They barely sit for a photo session. LOL

If the live portrait were dropped from the requirements, I would have long since been able to join up.

Tammy Moore

The more I think about it, the fact is I work too slow for live painting. I would drive my model nuts. hehehehe. It isn't a problem when working from photos.

Tammy Moore

Mmmmm, doing the poll gave me the itch to try again at the application/jurying process. I went to the join link and read the application process. Though I could have sworn that a live portrait was essential the last time I read it, it would appear that it is preferred but a photography-based portrait is indeed allowed if the photo was taken by the artist.

So, I am off to give the application process a go. I hope to find that this will not be my last post, but instead be the first few of many.

Tammy Moore

Tammy, you could always do a self portrait.

Hope you join. This forum is a great place to learn.