The dancer
 

Here is a ref. photo for a painting I'm about to start. I am attaching the original photo, then my touched up version, cropped and leveled out like I want it. (notice the ballet bar behind her head).

What do you think about this photo? Is this a good ref. photo for a painting or does it just make for a great photo? I'm shooting for a local show called "The Art of the Dance" and thought this was very striking!

Is there a tangent problem with the top bar behind her? I do need to retain the proper distance from the floor/wall line up to the bar...I am going to include the bar...adds to the "dancing" theme, of course...I think I need it in there.

Opinions, anyone?

Monique

P.S. In the "touched up" version, also note the light glare I removed and the leg/chair I "painted back in" in photoshop...ALSO, I accidentally saved the altered version with a little "fill flash" having been applied..I had done this so that the print out would come out a little brighter, but plan on painting in the darker shadows on her face as the original photo shows. I forgot to undo it before I hit save...and that is the only copy that has the glare removed..I printed a darker copy to paint by and just will remember that the saved version is too light. or is it? lol

I think this is a great photo and would be lots of fun to paint.

Grate photo for sure. I like the double lighting effect between light and reflected light. It looks like it has the makings for a excellent painting. The colors are quite there and interesting but maybe the values need to be adjusted some to give the figure better sense of form and space.

All the best,
m

.

Hi Monique,
this is a strong composition but I think that there is a problem with the foreshortening of the arms. I think that details are too crowded around her right arm, hand and elbow area. Details looks too small, compared to the overall composition, in that area.
Try to make a photo that explains things in a more simple way throughout the whole composition.
For instance, the ribs of the back of the chair tangent the body outline. This will be hard to deal with in a painting.
Allan

Thank so much!
 

Thanks for all of your comments...this photo was taken by a professional photographer named Rick Elias out of California. I have received his permission to paint from it.....therefore, there will be no re-shooting, unfortunately. I looked back at my original post and notice I used the word "shooting" with regard to this show coming up...shooting for it...well, I realized that statement might have been misconstrued as though I was "shooting" photos for it, lol...nope, i'm "shooting" for it as in aiming for it...it was my goal, sorta thing... :sunnysmil I WISH I could photograph this sort of beautiful shot. I do admire his photography greatly..he is VERY talented.

A lot of times, as you all know...and have stated...many photos look wonderful as just that...photographic artwork...and do not make good paintings....being so new at this, I'm still struggling with that line in the sand. This is why I asked about this photo. I love the mood of it...just as my Rebecca painting...I like an emotion to be involved..a mysterious one is even better. I think that is what I like about this photo so much. It speaks volumes without saying a word.

I hadn't noticed the tangent in her body/chair area...hoping that won't be a problem. Her hand? foreshortening....well.....again, I HOPE that if I just paint what I see, it will read correctly...I may be setting myself up for a fall, but I'm not going to go into it with huge fears...

I have not painted in almost a month..if you saw my daily schedule with the three children and my husband's cattle business that i'm working on taxes for, you would know why! :bewildere

SOOOO, I'm about ready to BUST. This week i'm going to start on this...I'm thinking on a little larger canvas..not too large, but is 16x20 large enough? should I go larger??? I want to blur a lot with this painting...this is very new to me..I'm a tight detailed painter but I do love very much the blurred look...sorta like Garth's work. You ALL know it....just breathtaking slightly blurred realism. LOVE IT.

Monique

Monique, this is such a striking photo and I think it will make a wonderful painting. The elements are balanced, everything off center by just enough to make it interesting, and the light is great.

The tangential lines should not be too hard to fix. You could bring the top barre up just a tad so it is above her head. Just start it a little higher on the right foreground, draw a line back at the same angle as it is to the corner, and bring it aross the back. The difference will be very subtle. The tangential line of the chair curve and her waist can be fixed by making the chair curve out more, or not as much, on both sides. These changes shouldn't be difficult.

I'm constantly amazed at the infinite variety of new ideas for compositions that people come up with every day. Have fun with this!

Boy oh boy....do I feel lost...lol....This sentence...I tried to understand what you are saying, but I'm having a highlighted blond moment and just, well, I just don't get it.... ??? Is it me? Please indulge me in a little more explanation... please? which foreground? the floor? the front of the bar? ok...I'm digging myself deeper and deeper here, :?

Thanks for the comments, by the way....I like that you are seeing potential in this photo..I really love it too. I have been VERY picky about what I wanted my version of "The Art of the Dance" to be...this did it for me. I'm not going to just paint a ballerina. I have an intention with my work and sometimes it becomes crippling to me. It has halted my painting desires for nearly a month...won't start without THE photo to go from. It was about to get the best of me until I settled with this one. Now I'm ready.

Monique

Wait a minute.....
 

NOW I get it. You were looking at the larger, uncropped shot. I did not intend on using the larger version, but the cropped version with her as the focal point....shall I reconsider?????????????

I was going to use the crop as I showed it..without the other right side bars. Hadn't even considered using the full shot. THAT is what you were referring to as the foreground....AND that it was off center enough...wow.....I do need to reconsider, don't I. wow...glad I looked back at my post again. I forgot I had included the original shot..it is unlevel too..but I can fix that just as I did the cropped shot.

Thanks!!

Monique

Oh, Monique--sorry for the misunderstanding! Yes, I thought you were using the uncropped version. I admit having a preference for the full version, but that is just me. The cropped version with just the figure is also very fine and unique. Whichever you choose, I know it will be good. Sorry to confuse you.

Excellent, dramatic photo. Wish it was mine!

To answer your question about size - if you paint this on a 16" x 20" canvas, her head will be about 2 1/2" high. How tiny are your paintbrushes? :o :o

If this were my photo (sooo jealous) I would plan a painting at least 24" x 30".... if it were mine. IF... (green with envy).

You made my morning....thanks
 

Well, IF it were yours, (but it's not, lol)......would you do the uncropped whole studio version, her off centered, or would you do the cropped closer version.....that would be IF it were yours, even though it's not......

BTW....I went to your site....very wonderful work....wonderful...(this picture lends itself to your soft approach...I'll have to study your work) and also drifted off to see your husband's cartooning site...very witty and impressive..you two must be a very fun couple!!

Please do let me know which view you prefer.....the cropped version is all about her...the uncropped version (needs straightening, I think, as I did with the cropped one)..is more about the dance theme. What do you think?

AND, which size canvas for each version? When you suggested the size you did, which version was that for?

Monique

SO mean! LOL.

If it were MY photo, I think it's all about the dancer, not the studio. But, that's just ME. Others might choose the full studio shot, if it were THEIRS (or if it was Degas). If I WERE painting it, I would choose the cropped version, and paint it LARGE. (if it were MINE, that is.) But, when I said I would paint her large, and I said 24" x 30" - that was in response to your comment that 16 x 20 was BIG.

I'm talking BIG. I would paint her on the biggest canvas I could get my hands on. (If, it goes without saying, the photo was MINE.)

And, thanks for your kind words. Yes, my husband is quite the character.

Straightened photo
 

Here is the larger composition, straightened out...I don't want to crop the white edges out because I want to keep the view and will adlib the missing parts...I don't care for the seam in the floor either...and will do away with some of the other distractions (something on the bar on the right side...but the light and shadows on the right wall there do add some interesting things to this. Windows are necessary because of being the light source for the lighting effects on her. Is this correct or is there just not enough light on her to warrant the window on the right wall? the left side window is imperative, right? or should that distraction be eliminated also? There is only a hint of it anyway. I could crop it off where the bar mounts to the boards on the wall...it could end there and have the inference of the window only come from the light and shadow on the right wall.

Did this paragraph just make sense?

Not in the least.

I think you should just give up. And, give someone else the photo. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

silly me
 

I am sitting here worrying about going pretty large with this because the photo is so blurry..even the best version is still rather blurry....I keep forgetting..this is NOT a portrait commission. It is a themed painting of a person I have never, and will never, meet, who does not require a perfect likeness...........so, this being said, I need to lighten up and just enjoy this. Adlib what I can't see well...have fun with it..right? This will be about color and the play with light..not about the exact color of the irises of her eyes....It will be about shapes and composition and drama. It will HAVE to be somewhat blurred, whatever the scale of it...which is not me..but is something I want to do, very badly...and WILL learn this go 'round.

Still contemplating composition and size.

yea, right
 

NICE TRY.....It's mine, remember? not yours....just thought I would remind you again, for the 4th time in 20 minutes.

You're fun, you know that? I think this is a great start to a dreary Monday morning here in the deep south.

Is it dreary down there? Up here in New England, it's sort of sunny, but frigid cold.

By the way - I grew up in Huntsville. I was the editorial cartoonist for the Huntsville Times for 5 years.

Gave it up, though, for painting.

So, why don't you go down one thread and give me your opinion on my photos?

Oh, and since you obviously aren't going to give me the photo... for what it's worth... I think if you do a fuller view of the dance studio, you should probably crop out the body shadow on the wall on our right. Although it's cool, I think it would compete with the girl for the center of interest.

Just a thought. Or, you could just NOT paint it. LOL.

BTW, I only received permission from the photographer to paint from this, not to sell the painting....sorta wondering how to change that....pay what he wants for the full rights? He isn't charging me a dime to paint from this. But, It was suggested to me that if this did get juried in and happened to place in the show, someone may want to purchase it. Doesn't mean I would have to allow it, but it would be nice! so, how do you handle that at this point? suggestions?

Offer a percentage. Get the deal with the photograher BEFORE you get an offer from a buyer.

A percentage of WHAT? What the selling price will be? Sells for $3000, he gets $300? something like that? I think he charges about $300-$500 for full rights to the photos already...that may not be very appealing to him. This is the first time I've used someone elses ref. photos, but at least I went about it the right way..I found online something that I really loved and then contacted him, made him aware of what I wanted and got to this point without paying a dime. But, although I assured him I would not sell it, I am regretting that statement. I do believe I'm going to go back to him about this.

Knowing how much he charges, do you still say a percentage and if so, what percent? again, do you mean that percent of the selling price?

I'm getting a little ahead of myself..I need to see if I can even pull this thing off first!

Percentage of sale, yes. You're not asking for full rights (I assume you mean transfer of copyright, correct?) - just rights to use the photo as artistic reference, and sell the resulting painting.

I don't really know how to work the deal, though. Maybe someone else can advise you.

If I could offer my spare change ...

Regarding the size of the painting - I would paint the cropped version large, giving her generous room on all sides. More room than your cropped version indicates.

If you will calculate her head to be life size, say something in the 7" range, then let the rest of her body be driven by that head calculation. After doing that, give her plenty of room on all four sides and then you'll have it. Don't worry about the standard canvas sizes, in my opinion I think this may calculate to be something un-standard.

Mike,

Thanks for your suggestions about sizing. This photo has only been released to me to use as a reference from the photographer, not to sell. I know, I know....it's all I've got at this point, lol...Therefore, It very well may be hanging in my house for the rest of my life....That being said, and also knowing that I have standard ceilings in this house...this painting will not be done life size, :) My house has to be able to accomodate it, somehow! :sunnysmil

I've chosen 24" x 30"....small, I know, but the largest I've done so far...remember, I'm relatively a beginner..in fact, this will be my 2nd oil painting of a human being! My first one, Rebecca, turned out pretty nice, so I'm gearing up for this attempt to see if I can come up with something nice.

I've started this today, in fact, and am heading to the WIP oil thread to post today's progress...keep an eye on me...it looks like you are a pretty seasoned artist and I love eyes on my work. It truly helps refine my pieces, especially at this early stage of my career...I'm like a living sponge! I soak up anything and everything I set my eyes on to help to progress and develop this gift of art that I have been given. When you get time, skip over and check out what I've done with this photo.

Thanks again!

I'm still trying to come up with a strategy of how to handle this...hey, I have to see if I pull this painting off, first. I'm doing something MUCH different than I'm used to! Thanks for the tips! I started this painting today and am headed to post it in the WIP oil forum here.

Thanks!

FINALLY got back to this painting...need it finished and framed by May 1st!!

(p.s. I know there are shoulder issues, width needs to be fixed, they aren't correct yet.)

Monique,
Wow! This is only your second human figure? You will be bowling people over in the future. This painting has a great presence. You are handling the subject with a great deal of feeling. It goes beyond a depiction and into the soul. Well done. Can't wait to see the finished product.

In oils, that is...I've done a hand full of watercolor portraits, but this is my second OIL person...did a few flowers for a friend for her kitchen, but I'm enjoying the portraiture side of oils tremendously!! Thanks so very much for your comments!

Richard, I can't believe I posted the painting in this thread, I didn't even notice it was the ref. photo thread, not the WIP or any kind of painting thread! I am doing a WIP on this in the appropriate place on here (oil portrait WIP) and it will be there that you can check my progress on this painting. I just posted an update where I started the background. I apologize for incorrectly posting the painting on this particular thread!! I'll pay closer attention next time.

Thanks again for your comments and you can jump over there to check my progress.

Monique