Girl in wicker chair
 

This is the reference photo my client selected for their child's portrait. I really like the pose and expression of the subject but am thinking that the chair and lighting are going to be real challenges!

Would love your thoughts on this photo. They want full length but does the chair become too much for her? Is the angle of the photographer bothersome - the viewer is looking slightly up at the subject and the chair needs a little straightening. Please advise!!!

Virginia:

Here are my thoughts:

I think the first thing I would do is bring the image into photoshop, or the like, and try rotating it slightly to the counter clockwise. I'd play with this some and see if I could make the image read a bit better in this regard. You might get a much more confident feel for the image if you do this. I'd do it for you but I'm without my program for the time being.

As to the chair being "too much for her?" I don't think it would have to be. I think you would have to pay close attention to controlling the values of the chair in relation to the subject. You can always fudge the color of her dress to differentiate it from the chair.

As far as the photographers angle, this doesn't bother me.

I hope you have a good high res. image, or better yet, some details of her face, feet and hands. There's a lot of sameness in that lighting. This would be the thing that scared me the most.

Thanks, Mike, for your input. I do have Photoshop and will try to rotate etc. My knowledge of that program is fairly limited.

Right now, it all scares me especially since I am tired and ready to go to bed.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Virginia,

From my point of view this picture, though charming, is not really suitable for a portrait. Often pictures that work as photos often don't work as portraits. This is an example.

A: The skin tones are all the same value, very difficult to paint even by the most experienced painter. I have one on my site, but I back-lit her so there would be some contrast and sparkle. The photo is a bit flat.

B: The angle IS a problem because of the foreshortening. If you are to shoot a figure straight on like this, it is best to shoot at a higher angle so there is some lap showing, and the knees do not look like they are coming out of her waist.

C: Lack of color, the chair and the dress are all one color. A pink chair would be a better choice and would be a complementary to the green. A pink or red dress would set her off better too against the white wicker. I have both an example of a white dress against a pink chair and a pink floral against a white chair in my site. I think they may help you.

Thanks, Sharon, for your input. I think I've gone about this backwards (live and learn). I should have posted my possible portrait photos before I let the client decide. They pondered for quite awhile on which one so if I were to go back at this point and tell them find another, I wouldn't look very professional.

I am going to take what you and Mike have suggested and go from there. I think it will be paintable but I will have to make some adjustments. Wish me luck as I will need it!!

Hope you don't mind...
 

I took the liberty to play with your ref. photo in Photoshop...I love tinkering with the program....truly hope you don't mind this...Here is your original and a lightened/straightened and cropped version of it also. What do you think?

Monique

Monique,

It is better. The composition is still akward if she is shifted so far to the left. Can't you rephoto the chair at that angle so you can get the arm and push the whole thing more to the right?

Cropping the chair like that does not, in my opinion, look very good.

I agree completely...
 

You're right, ideally, the whole chair needs to be included....and would it even look better if it is a fraction of a smaller scale? where there is not so much empty space on the seat? I don't know if this will make her look too large in comparison, or if it will make the scale/composition look more pleasant? Yes, re-photographing the chair alone will help tremendously! You're right. Using, of course, the current version for shadows on the wicker from the child sitting on it.

Monique

Virginia, you may have finished this painting by now for all I know, but I just saw this so I'll put in my 2 cents. Is the client wedded to a white wicker chair? I think there is too much white, and a natural wicker would make the dress stand out more. If you have to re-photograph the chair, you could also replace it! Just a thought.

I agree with the previous comments that the biggest problem is the flat lighting, especially on the face. I highly recommend reading through the photography sections of this website. Also there are some terrific, non technical books by a guy named Douglas Allen Box about photographing people by natural light.

Hi Virginia,

My comments are probably moot since you have decided to go ahead and paint from this photo - I agree with Sharon. I have painted from problem photos like this in the past and have never been able to overcome the shortcomings of the resource material. Now I know not to try.

Suggestions for the future - it would be beter for the body to be oblique to the viewer than straight on - her body is at the broadest, most static angle that there is. I agree with your initial assessment the chair is too much for her, especially as her position way to one side of the seat makes her seem as if she thinks it is too.

There is no light/shadow information to let you make the face appear three-dimensional. As to worrying about appearing unprofessional, I think the professional thing would be to tell the client that you have been working out some compositional ideas/color studies, and that you wish to take additional photographs in order to support the painting in its most successful fashion.

In addition to not cutting off the chair, I think you need more room around the chair, perhaps some foliage in from of one side of it, in order to avoid the canvas feeling crowded.

Good luck!

PS You also seem to have qute a bit of photo disortion in the front of the arms of the chair - stand back further and zoom in. The distortion I think contributes to the feeling that she is dwarfed by the chair.

EXCELLENT advice!!!

O.K. Here is the situation. I haven't started yet because I am waiting for the clients to measure the space where the painting will hang and get back with me on how much room I have. The client lives in Mississippi. I will be going back to their location this summer. Would it be professional of me to say I would like to take more photos then? The subject of the painting will be a year older. Suppose they can just say 'no' and go with the one I have or cancel all together. I really want to do a good job on this one because there is potential for more business. Ugh!

Take new pictures, show them the old ones and the new ones and tell them which ones you think are better and why. Then let them decide.

It is usual to collect a non-refundable 1/3 to 1/2 of the fee before starting. This ensures more client cooperation and they are less likely to jerk you around.

Brilliant professional portrait painters in the past as Sargent would do a head over at least a dozen times. Many times after working for weeks, he would rip down the canvas and start anew. Do you think his clientele thought him unprofessional?

Also it would give you a good chance to rouge the child's cheeks and lips. This prevents a pasty look in the painting. It would also give you a great opportunity to do a quick color study from life which would help with the final painting. You could also change the color of the dress or add some desperately needed color accents, even spray paint the chair if they would let you.

One of the most important things about being a portrait painter is to realize that YOU are the one holding the brush and stop being intimidated by the clients. If you have a strong vision of just what the painting should be, you are in a better position to sell it to the client. After all if they picked you on the basis of what they have seen of your work, they should be encouraged to trust your taste and judgment.

I love a tinker too, I hope you dont mind. I came up with this for what its worth :D .
By controlling your values you could make this wonderful I think.
Good luck with whatever course you take!

The lack of light-shadow contrast is definitely the most obvious problem. I'm assuming that, by now, this commission is completed. But I wanted to talk in general about a situation in which the artist takes reference photos, the client chooses the best one, and then later the artist has second thoughts about using the reference.

I'm not so sure. Of course it is embarrassing to go back and say you've changed your mind, or you had second thoughts. But if the portrait isn't as good as it might have been because of the poor lighting, then that also could be seen as "unprofessional." I'm speaking in general here, not about you in particular, Virginia, or about your clients. I've been in a couple of situations where the client started out wanting a certain thing, and I even painted the entire portrait, then I felt dissatisfied with it. I told the clients, who then decided they had been too intrusive in the process (they hadn't been, really, and I assured them they hadn't) and gave me absolute freedom to compose a new portrait, which I did. I didn't charge any more, just took a whole new set of reference photos. The second portrait made us all happy.

Many clients are fine if you explain that you strive for excellence and, you would like to re-take the reference photos. I think most people would respect a solid work ethic and in most cases would not see this as "unprofessional" if you explained it this way.

Whoops, I didn't see this last page. I guess, philosophically speaking, many of us are on the same page!

Erik,

As much as I am a fan of yours, I do think your take is a bit claustrophobic. It does however, lend another phycological element to it that could be compelling and add another level of meaning to this work.

That said, I must say the frilly side of me misses the design of the curved elements.

Thank you to all who have responded. I have gone back to the drawing board to see what I can do with this photo. I do have several photos of the chair in some different lighting so I will use other reference photos than just the one. I think that I can make this into a nice portrait (fingers crossed). It takes me forever to finish a portrait (busy with work, children etc.) but I'll post it once finished.

Eric, I liked the way you turned her facing the other way...I never would have thought of that! Just wish I knew how to use my Photo Shop so I could manipulate my reference photos.

Eric, you're a dab hand - I'm sure you know that you can't just flop someone's photo and have a likeness. The only person to whom it will look correct is the sitter!

But - compositionally, flopping a photo sometimes works wonders. :thumbsup:

Anyway - I'm joining the tinkering bandwagon...

Now a little more to the right.

Ha! ... I'm not such a careful painter.
None would know were it left untold ;) .

Hello Virginia,
I too have trouble using Photo Shop. Every time I use it I do learn something new. Just a thought. Eric took the photo and did 180 degree turn and gave you a different perspective of the reference photo. If you can't do what Eric did, try looking at the photo in a mirror. It works with portraits that seem to be off and you just can't get it right. It gives you a different look at the composition. The mirror will work wonders.


You have some great advice and input. Good luck. :thumbsup:

Here is another question for all you talented artist! What would you do with the background? Would you leave the tree to the left of her since it frames her face? What about the column with the ball on top? Too distracting?