Has the book on painting been closed?
 

An interesting dialogue has started in the "Introduce Yourself" (Greetings from Madrid) thread between a new member Carlos Ygoa and Sharon Knettell and Allan Rahbek. It was suggested that the subject move here, at Cafe Guerbois.

Has the book on painting in the style of the Old Masters and realism been closed? Or as Sharon suggested, has it just "not been taken out of the library much in the last 80 years".

This subject is striking home for me lately as I take classes at local art centers and colleges in the Cleveland area.
I am currently taking a sixteen week course in oil painting, a combination second/third/fourth year art class with thirty students. We are tripping over ourselves among our easels. It is woefully discouraging to see that these "serious" art students cannot draw a simple still life, much less paint a representation of form.

When the class participates in the critique some disturbing remarks have been made about my simple paintings (still life's thus far) "You can see that Pat has drawn this subject well, and being able to draw helps in a painting, but it is not necessary". The Associate Professor then goes into this discourse on how the world is so vast now, that being able to draw is not essential to good art.

Now I am working on a copy of Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl and the remarks I have gotten from my instructor is, "Don't worry, by the end of the semester I will get you to loosen up. Why would you choose a masterwork from the 17th century when modern portraiture can be so exciting?"

Ugh, seven more weeks before this class is finished and it was announced we will now move into the "fun" stuff, abstract art.

Herein lies my struggle. I am painfully aware that I am an infant to painting. Yet, I am serious about wanting to study portraiture and realism. And Cleveland seems void of teachers who appreciate realism, much less want to teach it.

When every discretionary penny is going into my education I wonder if I am throwing my money away in classes where there is no support for my determination to learn realism and fine portraiture. At this point I am tempted to drop the class and spend those 15 hours a week painting from life and good reference photos when I do not have a model in front of me?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Whenever I take a class I make sure I have a very clear idea of what the instructor will be teaching, as well as a clear idea of the kind of work they themselves are capable of. I wasted years and lots of dollars "studying art" at the University level learning how to talk about art but nothing at all about how to paint realistically.

I won't get into distinctions about what is "good art" and "bad art". I like to look at all kinds of things in varying degrees of realism. What I like to paint myself, though, makes up only a very narrow subset of all the art education that is available out there. You may have to take an out of town workshop to get some solid realism instruction.

Ah, and that is where my hard earned dollars are being spent now, just sent in my reservation for and made my airline reservations for "Hot Atlanta" with Marvin! I will not be participating with oils, but to avail myself of his lectures, demonstrations and teaching of others, I am sure will advance my own abilities. January can't come fast enough! And this is also why I am considering dropping the class, to spend the time doing monochromatic studies from life. I can't do both, attend this class and paint from a model, there are only so many hours in my week...

Thanks for your encouragement Michele!

Hang on there Pat. As Mighty Mouse used to say, "Here I come to save the day! " Seriously, I would advise you to just concentrate on drawing. Set up still life's with one strong light source and focus on getting the right shapes and values. These are the two most important things in painting. I would suggest charcoal as a medium since it handles closely to paint in many ways.

I would highly recommend getting the book of Charles Bargue's Drawing Course which is available from the Dahesh Museum, located in New York City. This book reproduces the plates designed by Jean Leon Gerome to teach drawing principles to students at the French Academy. These are the very principles I champion in my teaching. This will help prepare your drawing for painting purposes immensely.

I also recommend reading Harold Speed's books on drawing and painting (available from Dover Books.) These will get you up to speed and thinking in the basic right direction.

I made the non-painting participant status available as an option because I felt that half a loaf is better than no loaf at all, but I would suggest you consider upgrading, if at all possible, to get the very most out of the workshop and me. Being able to paint with me there, to answer questions and offer advice, would make a big difference. I understand when you factor in the cost of the supplies this basically doubles your costs but I think if you can swing it, it would pay off in the long run. Either way, I'm confident you'll find the experience to be far more satisfying than the class you're taking now. You will be juiced!

Mighty Mouse, My Hero!!
I think the only way I can show up in Atlanta is as a non-painter, I don't have the courage to show up with my paint box. But, don't worry, Marvin, my plan is to make this my "introduction to Marvin" workshop. Hopefully it will be the first of several workshops with "the Mighty Mouse"!! ;)

I do have the Bargue book, ordered it as soon as I heard about it and I love using it. I have a notebook filled with drawings from the book. I have not considered Speed's book but will look into it. Thank you for the suggestion.

The worst and the most I can hope for in January is that I will be there, watching you paint, and the other students, DYING to be painting myself!! I really plan on being "juiced"!

Oh, bring your paints..... really!

Are you going to be there Michele? I am so tempted, but apprehensive, I have NO experience painting except for the three simple paintings I have done in this class (will soon be posting the finished "Girl with a Pearl")

No, I won't be attending. I'm still trying to assimilate the information I've gathered from classes, videos and books from many different instructors over the past year or two. Perhaps in another year I'll sign up for more classes. Fortunately we have the Seattle Academy of Fine Art here which teaches great realistic painting so I don't need to travel so much.

But back to you... what do you have to lose by bringing your paints to Marvin's class? You'll learn more if you dive right in.

Patricia, I agree with Michele, jump in there with your paint and brushes. I'm learning too, and it amazes me how much you learn by "just doing it." Be brave and take your paints to the workshop, I know you'll be glad you did.
Debra

Patricia -

You've got more guts than this. Bring the paints. What are you afraid of? There will be worse painters than you and better painters - so what? I bet not one person will make fun of you - unless you dress funny or something.....but that;s another topic ;) It truly seems like such a waste of money to go and not take full advantage.

Back to the book.
 

To think the book on painting is closed is to deny the possibility of creating something that is not only new, but communicates to our age.

I think we owe a tremendous debt to the masters who came before us, but to worship at their feet denies us fulfilling our own possibilities. They all had problems to overcome and were always bravely searching for new methods and ways to communicate. To say real art has stopped say in 1890 and we have nothing more significant to add except to regurgitate the past, ensures that our art will become static and irrelevant. If you were to reread art history you would see that there was invariably tremendous pressure to keep the status quo, if many courageous artists did not comply perhaps we would all be doing Byzantine portraits.

I think one of the most dangerous trends in art, is perhaps not enshrined urinals, but nostalgia. I think when we think of contemporary representational art we should consider it not as a vehicle to recreate the stale motifs of the past, but to give ourselves as artists a more coherent way of communicating in our time. Paraphrasing Diane Arbus, who noted when looking through her lens, if she had seen the picture before, she would not take it.

This of course does not deny that the hard won skills of mastery, scorned though they are today, should be neglected. That goes without saying.

Patricia, bring your paints. Remember how the water when you first jump in is cold, but the more you swim the more comfortable it is.

Pat, if you can afford the upgrade, you really should do it. You're gonna regret it. Like Kim said, there will be worse and there will be better, but everyone will be there to learn.

I've only done five oil paintings, but it has'nt stopped me from posting them. They stink, but I'm not going to learn anything by hiding them. And if someone is laughing at them, oh well, I'll eventually get better.

You're letting a great opportunity pass you by. And if you don't take the full class, I won't be your friend anymore. Just kidding, my daughter's going through that stage right now.

I wish I could take Marvin's workshop, but I can't afford to take a week off work just for me. Maybe when my wife finishes nursing school and is working again, I'll be able to. I still have'nt hit the lottery, it might help my chances if I played. Hmmmm..... So Marvin, put me in for a 2006 or 2007 (whenever my wife graduates) Manhatten workshop.

JUST DO IT!

All of your encouragement is persuading me to take the plunge (I have been tempted to anyways). Of course I am posting my first finished portrait and you may all change your tune!! As far as the extra costs - where there is a will there is a way!! What have I got to lose, right?

Thanks,

ps Jimmie, you just make me laugh, and you will be missed! I expect to meet you at another Marvin workshop and will hold you to it!!

Nothing has stopped, but now and then the fashion changes.
By the outbreak of Impressionism in 1872, that is more than 130 years ago, when Monet painted his "Impression of a Sunrise" he started what was to be a development of art. He was basically interested in making the plein air painting as realistic as he could, and was very successful in doing so. The nature of the white light it self became later a trend in the Pointelism and so on and on and on.

But think about this; Artists still paint impressionistic pictures more than 100 years after the boom of that fashion, and I believe that Abstract Expressionism will be painted in a 100 years from now, considering that it don't take anything else than the desire to fiddle with a brush.

Why they do that must be because somebody likes the motives and buys them.

I think that it is a basic need, for people, to relate them selfs to there surroundings. We like to see and feel the things around us, and especially we like to build monuments to prove that we were here.

I think that a well painted portrait will always be interesting to the family, and if it is better than good, it will be a source of aesthetic enjoyment to all.

To me there is only two sorts of art, the good and the bad.

Allan

Patricia,

You sound exactly like me when I had finally made up my mind to take a workshop with Marvin. Trust me, you will learn and understand more after only one with Marvin then you can ever imagine----not to mention "he's really fun and not a stuff-shirt at all" ha

Hip -hip hooray to over 50--me too and loving it. Good luck and welcome to the greatest site on-line. Unfortunately I do not come here as often as I would like but do check in occasionally.

I hear the very same things you are saying from many of my students who have had previous classes in that area of learning.

Go for it and good luck.

Regards,
Patt

Thanks, Patt. I will be returning to all of the encouraging words from my friends here at the forum January 1 as I come down with a serious case of the jitters!

Actually, I turn fifty in April and I am looking forward to it!! This is the best time of my life!

Quote: "...drop the class and spend those 15 hours a week painting from life and good reference photos when I do not have a model in front of me "

Encouraging update!

We started on the next project in my oil painting class. I convinced the instructor and enough students were interested that we hired a model, one I have drawn in the sorely missed life drawing classes dropped by CIA!

Last night was the first class with the model and again we were given an option. With a majority of votes (by only one) the model is posing nude. Now I have nine class hours to paint from life!

I'm pumped!! ;)

Ha! So the CIA is behind the conspiracy to undermine all serious art education. I knew it!

Patricia--

Don't worry so much about painting well in a workshop setting. I generally don't paint very well in workshops, as I am paying the instructor to challenge all of my (many) bad habits and shortsightedness, and to take me out of my comfort zone. Sometimes I leave a week's seminar wondering exactly what I've learned.

Later, however, much of what I've been shown comes out in the work. I'll be working, the bulb will light, and I'll realize, "THAT'S what they meant!" Whatever you do gets in there, and contributes to the whole.

It's about the process. Workshops are an opportunity to learn, not a venue for performance. All of the students will be struggling beside you. You'll learn more from large failures than small successes.

Best--TE

Michele - you make me laugh out loud!!!

I am going to go, willing to appear foolhardy, but very hungry to learn. To read of your experiences is VERY encouraging as I so respect your work a great deal. Your words are taken to heart. Thank you.