Which camera?
 

I've used a Finepix 3800 for several years and thinking about something better. Sounds like the Nikon D-70 is a good value. Seems not to have time lapse or video mode. What does anyone think about the Coolpix 8700 or the Minolta Dimage A2 or Canon Rebel in comparison?

Edit:

Just found this which helps understand why the D-70 is better: http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glos...r_Sizes_01.htm Scroll down to Implementation Examples.

Dimage A2 = 2/3" CCD, 8.8 x 6.6 mm sensor size and 8 million pixels vs. Nikon D70 = CCD, 23.7 x 15.6 mm and 6.1 million pixels vs. the Rebel 22.7 x 15.1 mm and 6.3 million pixels.

The Nikon and Rebel pixels are much bigger.

Edit II:

Using my dual monitors and Steve's Digicams sample pictures for the D-70, Rebel and the A2. At first glance they look the same, but not upon closer examination. The D-70 and Rebel did much better picking up suble shadows and uniform white areas had a smooth texture. The same areas in the A2 picture where pixilated. And the D-70 and Rebel had much smaller file: 2,408,962 and 3,500,00 vs. 6,087,936. The Rebel photo was noticable sharper than the D-70, as was the A2. Did Steve screw up the focus? I don't know.

At the moment I'm leaning towards the Nikon D-70. Seems to be the most bang for the buck. 28 dollars less than the Rebel on Starlight and with the 18-70 lens vs. 18-55.

EDIT III:

The review on dpreview makes a good point. The Rebel has ISO 100 while the D70's lowest setting is 200 and the difference is noticable.

EDIT IV:

Boy, this has been an education. Found a helpful article, "The Two Classes of Digital Cameras" at http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/2dig.htm. As a professional photographer he rules out the new highend prosumer 8mp like Nikon 8700 or the new in October 8800 I suppose. Go with the Rebel or D70 he says. The bells and whistles of the prosumer units are seductive. No doubt he's right and a Rebel is the way to go.

On the other hand, how much image quality does a painter need vs. a photographer? My FinePix 3800 takes amazing pictures at 3.2 mp. At least as viewed on the monitor.

Hi Bob :

Right now, I already ordered my new digital camera and I am eagerly waiting for it, after reading thousands of reviews all over the places.

In the final, I decided to get the brand new Canon EOS-20D, which is being now released here in Europe. But it is already available for you guys there in the US.

Have a look at www.dpreview.com or http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/20d.html.

Rui.

... and I agree with you: what an excelent article, in "The Two Classes of Digital Cameras".

The Canon EOS-20D is a SLR, not a

Thanks, Rui...
 

...for pointing out the 20D! A very nice camera with better quality than the D70, etc. What was the deciding factor for you?

Also, just became aware of the Minolta Maxxum 7D which might be out mid-November and will compete with the Nikon D70 and Digital Rebel. Quality of image is a toss up. The 7D has Anti-Shake and Interval Timer. Not sure I can wait that long. Still hoping to stay close to $1000. For two days now I'm thinking D70 kit from ExpressCameras for $1299.

I'm very very happy with my Nikon D70. The color is quite beautiful (better than film to my eye) and the detail is very good. It has more features than the Canon Rebel. I don't know if the new Canon 20D is worth 50% more. There isn't a big difference between 6 and 8 megapixels.

If the 20D has a significantly greater dynamic range than the D70 it could be worth the difference. I doubt this is the case but you'd have to look into it to find out.

The quality of the lenses have a more significant impact on image quality than megapixel numbers. Coupled with my Epson R800 I get extremely beautiful prints. I would also recommend getting the Nikon Capture software to adjust raw files.

If you already have either Nikon or Cannon lenses this might influence your decision.

Hope this helps.

Cameras
 

PC Magazine's newest issue discusses their picks for cameras: they list two for digital SLR - the Canon Rebel and the Nikon D70. But of the two, the highest recommendation goes to the Nikon D70.

Bob:

No doubt that the Nikon D70 is a GREAT machine. I know the Nikon D70 very well since I used to borrow one from a friend,
while I'm waiting for my Canon D20 to be released from the distributors.

The diference in the megapixels is not that much if you want the bigger format(RAW's), but is indeed important when you do crop work, for example, to get a specific person out from a group of several persons.

But there are other differences in the Canon D20 which puts it above the Nikon D70:

- 9(!) Focus Points
- Shooter speed: D20 is even better than the D70
- 5 frames per second (up to 23 continuos photos in JPEG Large/Fine format) is FABULOUS to get that special
expression in a portrait or to photograh Nature(wich is also one of my interests)
- Very important: the entire range of possible lens is much bigger on Canon than on Nikon D70
- Less(or even less) noise in the photo on the D20 when using high ISO's(Sensivity to light) (never forget this point on a digi camera).
- Price(at www.pcmall.com) Canon EOS-20D: $1594.00, Nikon D70: $1299.00. It worths the diference.
... and there is more, have a try on the net reviews.

So, the point is:

1 - do you see a digi camera just for your portraiture? -> go for the Nikon D70
2 - do you see a digi camera as a toy to have fun in your entire life(which is my case)? -> go for the Canon EOS-20D.

Make your decision. :)
Rui.

The cost of the D70 without a lens is $999. The additional $300 will get you the kit lens.

Even though I got the kit lens (18-70) I like the 70-300 zoom better. I can shoot the full figure and zoom in on any details. For $300 this lens is a great buy. For about $900 you can buy an 80-200 zoom which I have learned is sharper still. In retrospect, I should have bought this lens.

Remember, whatever camera you buy will be obsolete in three years. By then you'll be buying 22 megapixel cameras for $1000. You'll still have your lenses though, so you'll want to make an informed decision about which manufacturer you want to be tethered to.

Can anyone tell me what the battery pack and charger options are for the Nikon D70?

I'd obviously like something that lasts long and can recharge quickly. Do these typically come with the camera body and/or the "kit" or are they purchased separately?

Greetings to all from the Sunshine state,

I too am very satisfied with my D70. I held out with film a very long time. It was like pulling up to the space shuttle launch site in my Ford Pinto and trading titles.

Michele,

I purchased the D70 kit from my local retailer for $1299. The kit came with the following as described in the specs from Digital Photography Review .

Power:

Thanks, Mike.

Where in Florida are you? Have you found a spot to call home yet?

I was heading for Nirvana and ran out of gas in Sarasota.

Have you placed your paintings here yet? Let me know where and I'll go by and talk them up.

D70 purchased
 

The new D70 is here. Have had very little time to study the manual and practice with it, but took it on a shoot yesterday as a backup. Used the FinePix 3800 mostly which I know and trust. Took only a few frames with the D70. An eight year old boy and his one year old dog Max. Good grief! That dog was incapable of holding still. It took three people to get him to sit by the boy and then only a few seconds at a time. Most pictures show him as a blur. I made a composite from parts of three photos, the best pose of the boy, the best of the dog and the boy's hand cropped from another photo. I think I can make it work. It occurred to me the dog could be drugged under the supervision of a vet. Anybody tried that?

Marvin, as I mentioned in the thread about the Canon Digital Rebel, I'm about to go buy a Nikon D70.

I think the 70-300mm lens (which I can get from a local retailer for $180) sounds much more useful than the 18-70mm "Kit lens". Thanks for the suggestion.

Do you think I should get both lenses or just the longer one?

Michele, I responded on that other thread. Short answer: buy both!

Marvin, regarding lenses, I have the N80 which uses G lenses. Are they compatible with the D70? Also have a couple of lenses from my manual FM2, but have'nt tried mixing the lenses on the cameras.

Just in case someone is wondering about the G lenses, they don't have aperture rings, the settings are on the camera.

The Nikon D70 uses G lenses.

Marvin, I got the kit lens and will ask Santa for the longer one for Xmas. They're down to $180 now.

Jimmy this is what Nikon says about compatable lenses:

Compatible Lenses: DX Nikkor: All functions supported; Type G- or D-AF Nikkor: All functions supported; Micro Nikkor 85mm F2.8D: All functions supported except some exposure modes; Other AF Nikkor (excluding lenses for F3AF): All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering, i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash for digital SLR; AI-P Nikkor: All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering, i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash for digital SLR and autofocus; Non-CPU: Can be used in exposure mode M, but exposure meter does not function; electronic range finder can be used if maximum aperture is f/5.6 or faster. IX Nikkor Lenses: cannot be used.

Thanks guys, just checked dpreview website and noticed the aperture is controlled with the front sub-command dial, so my lenses are good to go. I'm sure by the time I can afford the D70, the price will have dropped and the new model will hit the streets. :(

If anyone is interested, the D70 has a $100 rebate going on until I believe the end of the month.

I just picked up the D70 this afternoon from BestBuy. They're having a promotion where there's no payments or interest for 25 months. Of course, a year after it's paid off, I'll be looking to get a 12mp Nikon!

Good luck Jimmy. I came across this site the other day. Maybe it'll help you to set things up initially. http://members.aol.com/bhaber/D70/lessons.html

Thanks Marvin, I'll be sure to look it up. I've already fiddled with it and the pics look nice, hopefully I'll get a chance to use it soon seriously.

My two cents
 

I do big paintings in pastel and oil. Though most of my work is done from live models now, I, like everybody else became interested in digital photography.

Some of the comments on my work (the ones I can print) are about the fluidity of my brush strokes. What I did was to adapt the idea of sight-sized painting, and placing my print next to the easel, instead of my subject. I had my prints blown up to a very large size to almost and in some cases as big as the painting. I could then see the photograph from a distance of about 12', a usual working distance. This helped me keep my brush strokes looser. The problem with digital prints is, if they are to be blown up to a useful size for me, they would have been too grainy. The only camera that I know of that would be suitable for this purpose would be the Nikon/Kodak 1400. If there are digitals other than that that can enlarge to a 5' or 6' with minimal grain what would they be?

Hi Sharon, minimal grain is relative. How sharp do your photos blow up to six or seven feet? If you're working that large you're stepping back to make your evaluations. You surely don't need to, or want to, see every hair.

My Nikon D70 blows up pretty well. I zoom in on critical areas for more precise detail. I use a tripod and keep the camera in the same position so everything matches up.

Kodak makes the DCS SLR/n and the DCS SLR/c. It's the same body but the /n uses Nikon lenses while the /c uses Canon. The Canon one is on sale for $1000 less as a special offer now. These are both 14 mp. Canon just came out with a EOS-1Ds Mark II (16.7 mp) but will cost thousands more. Nikon is coming out with a D2X (12.4 mp) which would be my choice. There is more to resolution and clarity besides megapixels. I'm thoroughly impressed with Nikon. God is in he details.

Bottom line is you need to go to a store that sells whatever camera your interested in. Bring a compatible memory card and shoot something in the store with each camera. Then have the different samples printed out and see for yourself which works the best, or if any do at all!

Also go to dpreview.com and check out their camera tests.

Thanks to Sharon for explaining this method of hers a year or two ago (blowing up the reference so you are painting "sight size") I have been doing this too.

Until a month ago I was doing it with photos shot with my puny old 3.4 megapixel Minolta. The results were quite acceptable, though, especially since (as Marvin mentioned) I also zoom in for face and hand shots and incorporate those more finely detailed closeup photos within my "sight size" reference in Photoshop before printing.

The largest image blowup I have made this way was 36 x 48" but with my new Nikon D70 I'm sure I'll have no problem getting the level of detail I need for much larger size paintings if I want to do them.

And no, I don't have a printer that will produce output that large. I "tile" the output, printing one 8x10 section of the painting at a time and taping them together on a piece of large foam core. Works great, especially since for most of the painting I'm standing across the room and don't want to get caught up in every buttonhole or shoelace bit of detail.

Another concern, besides graininess, is color saturation. Would everything look washed out, would the form be well, formless?

I can get good color reference for the clothes, my famous dummy has been worth every cent. I have used Portra NC 160, a very fine grained film only in daylight for my skin-tones. Would you say the digital color is better than print for that purpose, ie. better skin-tones. I have two very sharp fast Nikon lenses so my prints blow-up quite well. What would be the advantage to a digital in my case.

I throw this out just for the heck of it. I'm not sure I would go this route except in very particular circumstances. A couple of years ago we had conversations about what might happen to the very good larger format film cameras.

Some would still argue that these larger negatives will produce as good an image as the best digitals (I suppose the very new 10 meg + digitals might be the exception).

Theres not much doubt that these large negatives can produce a superior image to 35 mm film. The deal is that they are now considered unworthy and therefore not worth much. Below is a link to an item on EBAY. Anything can look good if the price is right and it matches your needs.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...855294400&rd=1

Sharon I find the color fidelity and saturation to be far superior to film. You have to tweak the white balance and get a good quality printer but the potential to make infinitesimal adjustments is great. You can adjust saturation, contrast, color cast, sharpening and so much more. I never used color reference because I always found it to be inaccurate. Now I'm very happy with my color reference. It still isn't working from life, but it's pretty darn close.

I did a photo shoot of two kids last week with my new D70 and I was blown away by the accuracy of the color, especially in the skintones. It really surprised me.

I did a photo shoot last week with my new D70 and was blown away by the accuracy of the color, especially in the skintones. It really surprised me.

Im having some issues with my camera, long story short, I'm buying a new one.

After reading these threads it seems the Canon eos and the Nikon d70 are the two highly recommended ones at the moment in the $1k price range. If anyone wants to throw another in the mix please do. What about the coolpix camera's, I know that some people like these too.

Do either have a steep learning curve? Our local camera dealer sells only Canons, so you know what he is recommending. But his prices are much higher than what I am finding on the interenet. Do any of you recommend online dealers?

Mary,

I am very partial to the SLR type digitals. Without going into all the particulars that have been discussed before, these camera will produce a much superior image mostly because the actual pixel is much larger that the pixel on the non SLR types. Also, your ability to shoot in low light conditions (an ability that I prize) is vastly improved with these cameras.

As far as learning curve -- I wouldn't worry much about that. Which ever camera you buy there will be some amount of this. I found that my Nikon D70 operated in a very intuitive way. I have glanced at the manual a few times, but haven't really needed it much.

As far as on-line stores -- the link below, B&H, is considered to be a reliable source. When deciding between a local retailer and an on-line store you should consider how much hand holding you require. The one thing the locals will do is give you some hands on help if you need it. I found that when I was buying my camera the prices for what I wanted were not that different at my local retailer so I bought from them. I say buy it locally if there is not much difference. They will be more likely to help you out of a jam if you purchased the camera from them.

I have heard some random minor squealing from a couple of Canon digital rebel owners. I've heard nothing but praise from D70 owners.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?

There are a ton of professional photographers in this area and B&H is highly recommended by all my photographer friends. One particular note from a camera retailer though, is B&H warranties for the Nikon D70 are based in China. I haven't checked this out but thought that if you were to buy a Nikon from them you should inquire about the warranty, if it is from China (which means you'd have to send the camera to China for warranty work) or the USA.

I agree with Mike. A local retailer would be a good source. You can go to www.nikonusa.com to find a store near you.

http://www.calumetphoto.com/pr.jsp?p=hm&t=e295&US=1

Mary,

Calumet has always been good to deal with for me. I bought my Nikon D100 from them.

Garth
Nikon D100: 77,000 photos on the odometer, and counting.

Making the switch
 

Just back from a photo safahi to Arizona with the new D70. I was reluctant to take it on such trips because of the size, investment and unfamiliarity compared to my old Finepix 3800. After this I'll use it all the time. What a pleasure. And it holds all the pictures from four days on the flash card...no need to take the laptop. While it is bigger it is still very light. I hiked up hills with it hanging on my neck no problem. At one point there was another fella with a film SLR shooting pictures, too. Apparently he'd been watching me because after sixty exposures he came over and said, "Aren't you out of film yet?" Another advantage that hadn't really occurred to me. The menus are a little confusing because you must learn which button to push to navigate through them. Might consider DSLR Nikon D70 ebook by Peter iNova.

Reviews
 

On some of the camera review sites you can directly compare what you get with each and every camera. Then it becomes a factual, side-by side thing and not a personal preference.

If you are set up with a ton of lens already for one brand that might be factor.

D70 vs. SLR-like
 

I've had the D70 for about a year and a half now. Takes great pictures, good battery life, a pleasure to use. But when we went to Italy last spring I bought a used S1 IS on eBay for a couple hundred. Why? Small, 10x zoom (very handy), takes tv quality video. If I were in the market today I'd seriously consider one of the new SLR-like models. In good light they will take pictures equal to a DSLR for all but the most demanding photographer. FinePix S6000, S9100, or Lumix FX50. Anybody have SLR-like experience they can share?