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-   -   Sarah in Progress (http://portraitartistforum.com/showthread.php?t=3690)

Terri Ficenec 01-14-2004 12:45 AM

Sarah in Progress
 
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This is Sarah with the primary reference photo. Painting is small, oil on canvas, 9"x12". Still have a bit to do here, but am trying to finish it up.

I did soften some of the shadows that seemed a bit harsh on her face. Did I soften them too much and lose the 3-dimensionality? I do plan on working a bit more to soften her eyes (reduce the 'mascara' effect), and a few other details.

Any comments/suggestions greatly appreciated :)
Thanks!

Terri Ficenec 01-14-2004 12:46 AM

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Close up:

Kimberly Dow 01-14-2004 05:09 PM

Terri,

I don't know if it is my monitor, but I see hardly any shadows/value changes at all in her face. It's reading almost one flat color to me. I think her eyes need to be looked at a bit more. In the photo she is smiling big and it shapes her eyes a little more squintier(?).

Are you loving the oils? Do you think they are easier? Is this your first oil?

Chris Saper 01-14-2004 07:31 PM

Dear Terri,

I will just drop in here to make a few comments, since you are really bringing this portrait along well!

With regard to your drawing, I think you might check it again, as I feel the mouth doesn't sit symmetrically underneath the nose, and that the eyes are too wide and may be too far apart. Kim's observations are right on target.

With the smile as wide as it, the rest of the expression needs to ring true, in this case, narrowing the eyes, and restoring some of the value changes that make the the cheeks round and the eyes smile.

I think your portrait might benefit from adding some warm hues, especially on the turning places on the upper part of the cheeks, as well as some reflected warmth under the cheeks. Areas like the space between the front teeth, the corners of mouth, the deep shadows in the neck, and the corners of the eyes need, I think, some very dark warms. You might also add warmth where the sunlight is directly striking the hair and flowers, and the top of the shoulder in light.

You have done a very nice job managing your edges with the flowers. The last observation I would make is to look again at the holes in the hair. They are similar to the sky holes that landscape painters put so successfully to work, in that they tend to work best when they are slightly darker in value, and less saturated than the remainder of the background.

Terri Ficenec 01-14-2004 07:54 PM

Hi Kim - thanks!

Well, you've confirmed my fears. I was afraid I had the face too flat. It's looking a bit 'cartoony' to me.

The eyes are a little squintier in the photo, you're right. They're also a lighter brown than came through on the scanned photo. (The original reference photo is film-based and some of the darks scanned a bit darker than the original.)

I do really like the oils... It is SO much easier to blend! (Though I'm fighting a tendency to blend too much!!) This is my second little oil now... the first one is here.

Terri Ficenec 01-14-2004 08:10 PM

Chris-Thanks! Good points all!

The mouth seems off-center to me even in the reference photo (or maybe it's the nose that is slightly crooked?)... in any case, probably I've exaggerated that in the rendering. Definitely not something I want to do! The colors in the actual painting are a bit warmer than they've photographed, but I'll take a fresh look at all those areas you've mentioned... and thanks for the tip on the 'sky-holes' in the hair. Funny, I had seen that discussed on another painting here, not too long ago, but completely missed it myself anyway!

Terri Ficenec 01-20-2004 05:49 PM

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Updated image...

Critiques/comments welcome and appreciated. Thanks!

Terri Ficenec 01-20-2004 05:50 PM

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And closer in: (Sorry, for the glare.)
Looking at it here, I'm thinking it needs some add'l blending between the lights/darks on the cheek on our right.

Leslie Ficcaglia 01-20-2004 09:27 PM

Terri, what a great little subject and what a terrific job capturing the likeness! I do agree with Chris and Kim about the color; she needs more warmth in those skin tones. Sometimes you have to add more color than is present in your reference photo to compensate for odd lighting in your resource material. Clearly the child was in shadow, but I'd set up my own independent "white balance," to use a digital camera term, and bring the colors up closer to their true values. I'd probably load a bristle brush with a warm pink and lightly stroke it over her face to add life and light to the flesh.

The other thing that strikes me about the painting is something that Chris alluded to: the darkness between the teeth and at the corners of the mouth needs to be softened, both in value and in the edges.

Nice to see more of your work! Can't wait to see the finished version.

Terri Ficenec 01-22-2004 12:37 AM

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Hi Leslie! And thanks so much for the suggestions! For some reason, I've been really struggling with this one - frustrating! I essentially skipped the monochromatic underpainting this time and went right into color - not a good idea for me, I guess!

So here's a current status... :( am I getting anywhere here, or just treading water?

Leslie Ficcaglia 01-22-2004 09:05 AM

Terri, I think the mouth is perfect now. Nice job! The skin tones are a lot warmer now, too, and look more natural. You can see that she's in the shade but she still looks fresh and lively rather than blue-ish. I still think, comparing your painting to the reference photo, that there need to be more darker pinks on her forehead between her eyes, in the folds under her eyes, and in the darker areas of her cheeks. Some of the value range is missing in those places so she doesn't have the roundness and three-dimensionality that she should.

Also, look at the darkest darks and lightest lights in the hair in your reference photo. There's more of a range there than you have; for instance, the hair on our right (her left) as it comes into the light by her cheek is much lighter than you have it, and there are also more highlights on our left side. Basically it's a value range thing. Adding that contrast will also help to bring her alive and it avoids a flat look.

When I paint, I first block the picture in very loosely, although you can still begin to see the likeness, and I do try to establish my darkest darks and lightest lights but sketchily. You can see how that happens on my process page. I don't know whether that would work for you; personally I would get bored if I had to do a complete monochromatic painting first, but everyone's different. Your struggles with the values and hues in this painting may just be growing pains with oils. The end result is going to be beautiful as usual; I can see that already. I love your subjects and the way you handle them.

Kimberly Dow 01-22-2004 11:07 AM

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The mouth looks good Terri - just perhaps some value issues - darker in parts of the hair, lighten the lashes around eyes. I did a black & white - maybe this will help.

Linda Brandon 01-22-2004 12:48 PM

Hi Terri,

I think my views are a little radical, but since you paint so many outdoor portraits I just have to put my two cents in here.

Outdoor portraiture is not "about" finding volume in the form. There's so much reflected color in the diffuse outdoor light that you're getting a different kind of value change in the shadow side of the face than you would if you painted an indoor portrait. (Also, sunlight blows out most, if not all, the subtle value changes in the light side.) It's about color change and atmosphere and lost edges - in short, those qualities that add to the freshness and excitement of being outside. If you don't do this your painting looks like a "painted photo" and you don't want that - you want your painting to look alive. Take a look at Frank Benson or Edmund Tarbell for the way they've handled color in outdoor portraiture.

Just for the record, I use a different skin color palette for outdoor work than I do for indoor work. I'm not interested in "temperature" issues as much as I am with opacity and intensity.

I do think you are a fine painter and I'm enjoying your change to oils. I really like all the outdoor painting that you do, you have an affinity for it.

Terri Ficenec 01-22-2004 09:00 PM

Calling it done.
 
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Leslie, Kim, and Linda - Thanks for all of your feedback. I can't tell you how helpful it is! I've tried to incorporate it into the final version. . . at least I think this is the final version :)

Linda - I'm not familiar with Frank Benson or Edmund Tarbell - but I'm going to look them up now. I'm interested to see their work. Also, I'd be curious to know which colors you use on your indoor vs. outdoor palettes?

Thanks again!

Leslie Ficcaglia 01-22-2004 09:08 PM

It's just gorgeous, Terri. I love the feel of it. Her parents will be thrilled!

Terri Ficenec 01-22-2004 09:09 PM

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And the close-up.

(So, while I love that the oils stay wet so you can blend them so much easier than the acrylics - I'm having to fight a tendency to keep blending all the darks on the face away, just on the face. Not sure why that is. There could/should probably be darker darks in this face, but I keep trying to put them in there and they just keep, ah, disappearing :bewildere -so am calling this done)

Steven Sweeney 01-22-2004 10:22 PM

And I applaud your instinct, in saying "done!"

It is, and it is very beautiful. I would be pleased and proud to have this in my portfolio.

Well done, and Congratulations.

Terri Ficenec 01-23-2004 02:10 AM

Leslie - Thank you so much and for all the encouragement and help along the way!

Steven - I'm so flattered you would say that! It's really nice to hear after being so frustrated for the past 10 days. And it's nice to know that someone else thinks it's 'done'... My usual criteria for 'doneness' is when I start to be afraid that anything more I do would do more harm than good :sunnysmil

Kimberly Dow 01-23-2004 04:34 AM

Terri,


Looks good!

I cant always get the darks I want either when its wet. When that happens I save some of the skin color if I have it mixed and wait til the painting drys to the touch. I put some linseed oil on the painting and wipe off most of it (for blending purposes) - then begin again - starting with the darks. If you blend well enough (even using a finger to really push it in so as to not leave an edge) it looks great. I used to do this without the linseed and it was much harder to get it blended smoothly. That's one thing I learned from the T Tyler workshop.

Leslie Ficcaglia 01-23-2004 09:11 AM

Kimberly, I have a different method of adding overlays to correct colors or values. I usually let my paintings dry for a day before returning to them, and then if I have a subtle or not so subtle change I want to make I use a bristle brush with a little of the color, usually enhanced in hue or value, and lightly brush it across the area I want to work on, so that the texture of the canvas picks up the paint very slightly. I can go over it repeatedly to deepen the color and the effect, and I have a lot of control over how much and where. There's no edge effect because it's brushed on so lightly; it's easy to feather it into the surrounding area so there's a good transition.

Stacey McEwen 01-23-2004 10:58 AM

Terri,

This turned out beautifully! It's fun to see you working in oils.

Thanks for posting while it was in progress - I learned a lot from seeing how you tackled certain problems. I too have a tendency to blend my darks away - sometimes I end up repainting the bulk of a face multiple times to get it right.

Linda Brandon 01-23-2004 12:47 PM

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Hi Terri,

You're in luck because both Tarbell and Benson were Massachusetts men. I know there are lots of their paintings in museums in the East; Boston seems the place to start.

Their outdoor color may be too wild and impressionistic for your taste, but I think that outdoor/bright sunlight paintings are THE place to experiment with strong flesh colors.

First, a Benson:

Linda Brandon 01-23-2004 01:00 PM

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And now a Tarbell:


What I like about these painters is that they are convincing. Whether they've painted these outside or not, or from a photo or not, I feel as if they have been outside and know how it feels to be outside. (Plus, it is hugely fun as a painter to get out there and paint.)

Oh, my own colors: well, Diox. Purple (try mixing it with Naples Yellow) and Cinnabar Green are two colors that show up in my outdoor flesh tones but not in my indoor ones. (I am far too humble a painter to post my own work in a post which contains a Tarbell.)

I think your own work is wonderful and getting fresher all the time. I'm revved up about seeing another SOG painter who seems to like the outdoor portraits as much as you seem to.

Linda Brandon 01-23-2004 01:13 PM

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And I can't resist posting a Sorolla:

Judson Eneas 01-26-2004 06:06 AM

I like it but......
 
I like the painting of Sarah. Excellent likeness. But I think that you need to add a little bit more rouge to the face. For rouge I would mix cadmium red medium with a little yellow ochre and a lot of white.

Terri Ficenec 01-26-2004 02:52 PM

Leslie, Kim - Thanks!... I've got to admit, it was not the fault of wet paint that caused the darks to keep disappearing, but my own over-blending. I had previously read (somewhere on the forum, but don't remember where) about painting into a bit of linseed or walnut oil - so that was how I was adding shadows over previously dried paint. It makes it almost too easy :sunnysmil to get nice soft blends. I am planning on going to one of Tim Tyler's workshops this summer, can't wait!

Stacey - I know what you mean, me too!. And every time I tried to adjust any part of the lips I wound up repainting the entire mouth. As far as posting works in process, I am so grateful for the incredible generosity of those who are willing/able to take the time to offer critique - I am learning so much!

Linda - Hi - Thanks for sharing those beautiful paintings! I'm sure my computer screen doesn't do them justice, that they are even more impressive in real-life. They are a bit more impressionistic, than I'm comfortable painting, but I do enjoy looking at them!

Judson - Thanks! I agree that her face could perhaps have used a bit more color, but I couldn't seem to get any more of a blush on her without her looking sunburnt. I really struggled with these fleshtones in shadow the way they are.


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