Galkyd lite surprise!
 

I've always used my own recipe for medium but I attended a couple art demos and both artists (on seperate occasions) endorsed Galkyd lite, especially over Liquin which I also use when I'm in a hurry.

I am using Galkyd lite for the first time and I really don't mind the "thinness" so much but when I attempted to add another layer to enhance the cheeks on a portrait I'm painting, the whole first layer wiped off with the brush like a magic eraser since there wasn't a trace of the paint on the brush! What is this phenomenon? My painting has naked cheeks now, right as I was thinking I was almost done!

Any Galkyd user out there with an antidote?

~Erika~

Thats truly awful! I don't have an antidote, but just my own bad luck with all the Gamblin mediums except for GamVar. I did notice a type of drag to them that I really disliked. I'm sticking with my tried and true Liquin. I never had a problem with it in all my painting years.

Good Luck, I hope someone can help.

Alkyding aside
 

Liquin yellows with age. All Alkyd mediums ruin brushes. They are fraught with problems. It has to do with the way they dry. Alkyd is another modern invention that falls way short of the promise.

To shorten drying times use flake white and cold pressed linseed oil. Just like Rembrandt, Ruebens and Van Dyke did. Sargent used stand oil. Their paintings turned out pretty well.

Just remember, the medium doesn't paint or draw, the artist does.

Marvin--

I use a pretty traditional mix of OMS and stand oil, in a 2 to 1 mix (2 parts OMS), in my paint mix when I want a little more fluidity or when color matching wet to dry.

I also use it in what little occasional glazing I do, but am concerned about yellowing even in this instance. What's the skinny on this? I've heard reports both ways on stand oil yellowing. (The potential is there because it's linseed in a thickened form.)

Hope everything's going your way.

Best as always--TE

Thank you all for your kind input. I've just been letting it dry for now, mainly because I am trying to meet a deadline for another piece. I also wanted to see if I get the magic answer in case I am doing something wrong.

My regular recipe is the combo linseed/damar/turp which I should just go back to since I know how to control it and I haven't had any problems with it. Just trying out lesser offensive materials to work with, you know? But I know in the final analysis, odorless or not, they are all offensive, oh well!

I'm just relieved this happened before my next project which is a commission for a triple copy based on a photo of 2 kids. The horror!

Thanks again!

I use Turpenoid Natural and find it totally non-offensive. It's non-toxic, and non-flammable so I can wash my rags in the washing machine.

For medium I use only Turpenoid Natural and linseed oil, and that's only on the underpainting. Works so far. The underpainting will dry in 5 days or less, depending on the pigment and the weather.

Tom,

Stand oil is much less yellowing than cold pressed linseed oil. The yellowing in linseed oils is a temporary condition which can be resolved by exposure to daylight.

Most yellowing in paintings is caused by using resins as an ingrediant in your medium or as a final varnish, such as damar. This yellowing, however, is not reversable, although the final varnish can be removed.

Gamvar is a great substitute as a final varnish. I add two teaspoons of Gamblin wax medium to the contents to make it a little less glossy.

Although I use a little Gamsol (thinner) with my medium (stand+cp linseed oil) I've been using M Grahm & Co. cold pressed walnut oil to clean my brushes and I'm happy to report my brushes have never been happier.

I like having as little solvent present in my studio as possible.

Crisis averted!
 

Thanks again to everyone who was kind enough to chime in on my post! Thankfully it was a matter of letting the layer set a bit which concerns me about this medium since I like to work fast. Attached is the painting. This is 12"x16" oil on canvas. Sorry about the awful glare. Lighting outdoors isn't any better in Southern California with all the unfortunate multiple fires we've been having for days.

Alkyding Aside....!!
 

Marvin,

I've heard good things about you from my dear friend (Beth) whom shall remain (Beth Schott) nameless. Loved your play on words! I needed a smile tonight!

I'm hesitant to even ask this, but do you- or anyone- know anything about Weber's Resingel?

Linda

Linseed the light
 

Linda,

Don't believe everything you hear.

Glad I made you chuckle.

I thought Weber's made barbeque grills (another joke!). I don't have any experience with that particular medium or any other Weber paint products.

Linseed oil rules!

Oil Me Up Battle! (Marvin)
 

Okay, I am admitting to the world, or at least anyone who reads this, that I am in love with Resngel.

There. I've said it.

I do love linseed oil with balsamic vinegar over a salad, though. :)

Linda

PS I believe EVERYthing I hear!!I'm a trusting sort.

Cold Press Linseed?
 

Marvin,

What exactly is cold pressed linseed oil? Let me check what I have... I guess I've run out. It seems I've run out but I do remember it was Grumbacher Linseed.

Linda, as for Liquin, I've heard that it causes depression in some people. So do be careful and make sure you have ample ventilation when you use it :) My 2 cents at 9AM on a Saturday.

Back to basics
 

I have to agree with Tom. After years of going back and forth about mediums and new stuff, it's English Turps and Stand Oil for me any more.

And you know what? I've got more control over what comes off my brush and how than ever.

Sometimes less is best ;)

From Mr. Gamblin
 

Dear Chris:

I usually do not have the time to jump into discussions on web site forums, I would love to do so, it but I am challenged trying to keep up with the volume of email questions that come through our web site. But since you asked so nicely....


In general our approach to making mediums is much better understood by seeing our medium brochure, if anyone would like one please send an email to [email protected] and Katie would be happy to get one in the mail to you.

Erika: Galkyd Lite's thinness is because it is formulated to be a low viscosity medium. In addition we make high viscosity and gel viscosity mediums. In all three categories we have fast and slower drying formulas.

Alkyd resin is essentially polymerized oil, like Stand oil which is a polymerized oil. It is called a "resin" since alkyd is so highly polymerized that it initially dries like a resin, by solvent evaporation. But nevertheless, since is is essentially oil, it also dries like oil, it skins over then dries under the skin as time goes by.

I am guessing that in your case, the alkyd glaze skinned over, then you touched it with a brush or with solvent and broke the skin allowing for the wet glaze below to easily be removed.


Stanka: The fast drying Galkyds are clearly not for you. We make slower drying mediums at all viscosities that allow for a longer "open" time. I intend that if you like one of our mediums then you will dislike the others. I suggest you try our Neo Megilp if you want to give them another shot.

Marvin: You are right that alkyd can be very difficult to get out of brushes. For fine haired brushes they should be cleaned in a mineral spirit, rather than an odorless mineral spirit, then washed with a mild soap. With bristle brushes I use an excellent product, Aquasol, to clean the mediums out of brushes, then wash them with mild soap. This works even if the brushes are dry and stiff.

The problems they can cause with brushes are because of their good properties: they dry with a very tough yet flexible paint film.

Lisa: If you read all the print on the Turpenoid Natural can you will see that Martin F. Weber, the manufacturer, does not recommend that you put the product into your paint layers. You can see why if you pour out a small amount onto a clean surface, like a paint can lid, and then watch what happens to it over the next three to four months.


Thanks for asking for my input, sincerely,
Robert Gamblin

Chris,

Thank you so much for this research you did on our behalf. It makes so much more sense now. I completely concur with his thoughts about what happened to my painting. I bought a big bottle of Galkyd so I am so pleased that I don't have to be intimidated to use more of it. :) I will send for the brochure. Education is everything when it comes to trying out new things.

Thanks again!

Hard pressed to know about linseed oil?
 

Erica,

"Cold pressed" designates that the linseed oil has been created by pressing the flax seeds and expressing the oil. CP is prone to yellowing which can be reversed through exposure to daylight.

If the CP oil is then heated in a vacuum it becomes polmerized and is called stand oil. It is slower drying than CP, doesn't yellow, makes a flexible paint film, flattens the paint and reduces "sinking in." It is very fat. SO and CP have a great track records.

If the CP oil is further pressed it is called refined, although there are numerous other ways "refined" is processed. It dries slower than CP and faster than SO. It is less yellowing than CP but due to the additional processing and the resulting oxidation it forms a weaker paint film.

I use very little stand oil, in my initial layers since it can eventually create a beading up of paint in the upper layers. Therefore I add more stand as I near completion.

I use many brushes while I paint, one for each value of each color. I don't constantly dip in solvent or oil to clean them as I paint. I believe this muddies the colors and degrades the paint film.

Since the alkyd resin begins to set up immediately I find that my brushes have a far too short lived existance. One of the many reasons I choose to avoid resins.

It is very important for artists to understand the properties of the materials at their disposal, so that the proper choices can be made.

Hope this all helps.

Linda,

The title's for you!

LOL Marvin,

I'm not Linda but I appreciated both your plays on words!

My morning education has been extremely informative thanks to you and Chris. Good point on using a brush per value, it might be a practice I'll adopt; I usually have a brush for light and dark painting, especially when covering big areas. I appreciate your generosity with your knowledge, processes and sense of humor ;)

Take care

Re: Turpenoid Natural
 

Thank you Mr. Gamblin. I read the back, and I'm careful to not use it at more than 25% of the paint mixture, as the manufacturer states. Now, I'm a little concerned though, so I'll try pouring some out to see what happens over the next few months.

Thank you for your thoughtful response!

Lisa

Erika
 

Were you talking to me when you said, "Linda"? I never said anything about Liquin...

I'm a little confused.
Linda

ReNae--

I like anyone that likes what I like, of course. But be very careful with turps--it's toxic, toxic stuff. Everyone thinks it's benign because it comes from trees, and it's what all the old masters used because that's all there was. But just cause it's natural, doesn't mean it's not BAD for you.

By comparison, odorless mineral spirits are much safer, on the solvent scale, even though they're "man made."

Check out this discussion on the Gamblin site. They rank-order solvents in the order of their toxicity, and turpentine is WAY up there. I can't have turps around because I'm allergic to pine trees, but after reading this, you won't want to handle it with anything less than a HAZMAT suit.

You're better off with something else. Specifically, Gamblin has an OMS that's more highly refined than most others--Gamsol--and it's about the safest of all, if you have to have solvents in the studio.

Y'all be safe--TE

Turp
 

Tom,

Thank you for the information. I was aware of the toxicity of the turps, but I use very very little. A 1/4 oz in my palette cup at most at a time. I got the idea somewhere that spirits without smell were potentially worse because without being able to smell them I would not be aware of their build up in the air. I may have mentioned before that I've got C.O.P.D. and fumes are always on my mind. I will look further into the turp properties.

Thank you again.

OK, now I'm a little worried. All I want is 2 things: a non-toxic way to clean brushes nicely and quickly for my extremely lazy habits, and a lean medium to do my underpaintings. Is that too much to ask? Maybe I should try the vegetable oil for cleaning but I think I'm too lazy - that stuff goes rancid. When I'm done painting for the day... I'm done. More labor is unlikely.

What do you think - Turpenoid natural to do the brushes and Gamsol + LS for an underpainting? I'm not adverse to multiple substances. I keep my turp/linseed oil in a closed baby food jar so I'm not worried about mistaking it for a food substance. Yet, the kids are in the studio at least once a day so I like to keep things as non-toxic as possible, and I like to launder my rags.

I agree, I take the odorless stuff as extra dangerous because I'm not even aware we're inhaling it.

Lisa

Stanka, not Linda
 

Linda -

I'm the confused one, I was talking to Stanka. The burnt smell and ashes we've had in Southern California for days are getting to me. Sorry to confuse you. :oops:

Lisa,

I use paper towels so I can simply dispose and take the trash out daily. My habit is I wipe paint off my brush, then swish it in my bucket of turpenoid which has a tight lid in between use (I know it takes time, but it's an inconvenience I shoud try to afford). Then after each session, for final brush cleaning I use lava soap (bar) which hasn't let me down yet. I lay my brushes flat to dry overnight.

One last post on this, and I'll step aside, I promise.

Everyone should remember that inhaled fumes are not the only issue. There is also the factor of absorption through the skin. Some of these things are absorbed that way, and some are not. That should be researched also, when choosing what to use.

"Let's be careful out there."

Thanks Chris for checking with Mr. Gamblin. It was very helpful.

Erika, I knew you were talking to me. Liquin fumes helps me understand such communication. Speaking of..I'm going to try M. Graham walnut oil. They have an alkyd as well for my 'overnight-change-the-thing' needs. I've been having headaches lately that seem to be pointing toward the studio as a source. With winter coming, I don't feel like painting with fans and open windows in Cleveland. Wish me well. I may go into Liquin withdrawal..

Wishing you all safe painting!

Oil you need is love
 

I use the M Grahm Walnut Oil to clean my brushes at the end of the day. They suggest using two containers containing their oil, one for an initial clean and wipe (repeat until all residue is gone) and the second for a final dip and wipe. I use brush cleaning canisters with an airtight lid and a screen halfway down. They say further treatment isn't nesessary if you're painting the next day but I always follow with Murphy's Oil Soap.

In my experience their walnut oil is more effective than using a vegetable oil from the supermarket or healthfood store. It seems thinner and cleans more easily. Also the paint sediment falls to the bottom of the canister more readily so the oil lasts longer and I can get more cleaning sessions out of it..

And best of all my studio is odor free and my brushes look like new.

I liked the M Graham Walnut Oil Alkyd Medium the best of all the Alkyd Mediums but it still destroyed my brushes. I find that linseed oil and thinner drys at almost the same speed.

The Gamsol is not odorless like some thinners it is LOW odor. The reason for this is because the evaporation rate is much slower than turpentine, therefore if you had an equal amount of both, the Gamsol would release far less fumes. Out of scent out of mind does not a safe studio make.

The fumes let you know if you're being exposed to toxins. Good health is the most important tool in the painter's arsenal.

M.Graham
 

Marvin,

Thanks for the input. I posted in another place, that I had just received samples from M.Graham. The info on using Walnut oil for clean-up was interesting. I have been using, like Lisa, Turpenoid Natural. My post above about Turp and Stand Oil was about what goes on my painting, not what I use for clean up. But I'm wandering now. Anyway, I tried the sample for clean up, and like you, I found I liked a soapy wash after. I'm in the middle of a simple still life using Graham's pigments and I must say, the colors are vibrant. Ive gotten some feedback on this WIP on another site and it was all good comments about the color. The product is looser than most so mediums have not been needed so far.

Thanks Marvin for your input.

I don't know, my brushes seem fine. I wear them out because of my ferocious attacking of the canvas. Poor things eventually beg to be retired.

Weren't you using neo-meglip? what happened?

Stanka,

First of all it ruined my brushes. Also, I have discovered that there are many unanswered questions concerning the long term effects of alkyd resins.

I found a technical journal published by the National Gallery in London. This particular issue dealt with the analysis of works created by Van Dyke and Rubens. Using the most technically sophisticated scientific techniques conservators examined the works of these two great artists. They discovered that the only medium present was linseed oil.

In the vast majority of paintings painted before the 18th century analysis has found nothing other than vegetable oils in the paint film. These paintings have held up far better than paintings painted hundreds of years later that used more sophisticated combinations including resins, black oil or what have you.

It is always possible that at some point in the future scientists will invent a test that may discover the presence of additional additives but until then I'm sticking with my linseed oil.

Weber Resin-Gel
 

I am considering Weber Resin-Gel myself. It is non-toxic and I really like one of thier other products..Turpenoid natural which has enabled my studio to be non-toxic completely. Currently I prefer Grumbacher's Alkyd Quick dry for a final glaze because it has a bit of wax in it and i feel that alkyd is tougher than linseed. I have a hunch that Resin-Gel has wax in it too and I may switch. It is alkyd based with wax and no solvents. It's gotta have drying oils to alter it's texture just as Grumbacher's medium. Cant find ingredients on any of the Weber products which is frustrating and suspicious for me.