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-   -   Vic and her flute (http://portraitartistforum.com/showthread.php?t=2633)

Mike McCarty 04-23-2003 11:22 PM

Vic and her flute
 
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I like this image. I haven't done a lot of calculating yet, but my initial plan is to paint this 24 x 36 oil. This would put the head at a bit over six inches, hmmm..., 48 would put it at eight inches, hmmm.

This image has been in my mind for some time and finally today I was able to get everything in one place. This was shot with Kodak portra 400 film at my new market studio digs. Mostly the light is from a large north window wall to her left. We had a very overcast day and the shutter speeds were so very long (some more than a second). Even with a tripod most of the images were not in good focus. There was a helper holding a reflector just to her right.

My plan is to get this painting started and then have Vic come and model the pose while I paint from life in this public forum.

My thinking is to paint the image with the flowers and swans (very subdued) but I question whether the far background objects should remain. What say you about this or any other aspects?

Mike McCarty 04-23-2003 11:25 PM

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After shooting each full pose I try and zoom in quickly, altering the camera height slightly to keep perspective, and catch the face again.

Steven Sweeney 04-24-2003 05:09 AM

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Mike,

I

Sharon Knettell 04-24-2003 08:08 AM

Simplify, reorganize
 
Mike,

I love the way you posed the figure. I do, however have to agree with Steven on the swans and you on the all over clutter as well.

Not to honk my own horn, but if you click on my website you will see a lady in a red dress with a huge bouquet of white roses. I think it works for two reasons, one; the all over color is shades of white, the roses are but another variation. I find when working with complex background using a monochromatic background really helps. If you check out Sargent's paintings he did this quite a lot. Also I have the flowers behind the lady in the OPPOSITE direction to where she is looking. Florals placed close to a face in the way you have done compete for attention with her face, also because they are relatively the same size. The florals would have worked better on the other side and slightly tucked.

The color; the red and red orange in the background make her skintones look quite leaden.

Sincerely,

Mike McCarty 04-24-2003 09:16 AM

I have just a little time this morning. Thanks Steven and Sharon, I'll try and respond better latter on.

My initial plan was to shoot this at the local Philbrook museum outside on the veranda with the big columns and archs receeding into the background. Then we have thunderstorms all the live long day. Now I have my beautiful Victoria in front of me for a couple of hours and rarin to go (no small task) with the dress I borrowed from another size 2 friend.

So we go indoors. The furniture is consignment and big. There were not a lot of options as far as placing her relative to the light.

This is the way life goes. You plan your best plan and then you modify for life. My thinking was if I got a good image of my model I might be able to rearrange the pieces.

Because of the flute widening the frame on our left I thought there might be to big a void above it, needing something like the flowers. I gotta run.

Sharon Knettell 04-24-2003 10:34 AM

Mike,

Move her slightly to our left, the mirror would be a good simple fill. The bouquet is too fussy, larger simpler shapes (ex. peonies) in a dark red or cerise (better) would work better.

A lovely subject, good possibilities in the present location with simple modifications.

Sincerely,

Mike McCarty 04-24-2003 08:39 PM

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Here are a few other images from the shoot which better resolve the background but don't have the long flow of the first image above.

I really like the long pretty dress version which would make a nice bigger painting. I'll continue to try and resolve those background issues.

These other images are not bad but they don't have the same long feel that I get from the first. This first one comes closest and could take a larger size but is more chunky.

Mike McCarty 04-24-2003 08:43 PM

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This "one hand" version has a certain appeal for me. I think I would loose the necklace in this one.

Mike McCarty 04-24-2003 08:47 PM

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One more with her hair up. I have this one in a standing three quarter pose as well. It, however, has the same background issues as the first.

Valerie Gudorf 04-24-2003 09:23 PM

Mike,

Here's an opinion from a rank amateur: The first thing I thought when I saw the photo, was "oh lovely! But what's with the swans?" I agree with Steven that they must go. I like the way he simplified the space behind her head also. But I do like the flowers where they are. I think they augment the composition without stealing from the subject. That being said however, I'm not the most adamently confident in my own judgement. Sharon knows a lot better than I on everything artistic.

I am really taken with the photo of Victoria with her hair up. The eyes, which are of tantamount importance in most portraits, stand out better in this last photo and are far more expressive than in the first. Additonally, think the hair style flatters her jaw structure and facial lines. I also prefer the position of the flute in this last photo.

Oh yes, one last thing: I agree with Sharon (I'm sure she'll be so relieved---:D ) that your subject's skin tones look pasty next to the intensely warm background wall.

Cheers,
Val

Mike McCarty 04-25-2003 12:39 AM

Valerie,

Thanks for the look. I too am leaning towards Steven's version, sans fowl. Also a less ditzy flower set up as Sharon suggests.

I have had others respond the way you have regarding the hair up versions. For me it's a close call. I like her body and dress in the chair and I don't have the hair up version in the chair like the first one.

Steven, you wrote:

[QUOTE]I

Mike McCarty 04-26-2003 09:11 AM

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This is another hair alternative that I like (probably bunned up in the back). It gets to be more about her face than her big hair, not to mention my ability to interpret it.

There are plenty of other challenges in this composition (simplify, simplify, someone said). Not the least of which is the flute. Why not holding an apple, a lemur, or a crysler cordoba with rich corinthian leather?

This image is cropped from a photo I took last year. I think I could get her back, snap this image in context, and make it work. And when she comes back to model the pose, have this do in place.

Still pondering the issue. I started the sketch on canvas yesterday.

Mike McCarty 04-26-2003 09:17 AM

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combined ...

Sharon Knettell 04-26-2003 12:42 PM

Your own judgement is best
 
Mike,

I hope you are not going to ditch that perfectly wonderful first pose of Victoria. I regret having said anthing including the remarks on her skintone which could be simply remedied by some work from life and a simpler bouquet. It is a very elegant and well posed portrayal.

You have a great innate sense of design and you photograph women especially beautifully.

I think your first instincts were on the money, you had your own sense of what was off already without going through the gyrations you are going through now. I think my input just short- circuited your own critical thinking which is most important to the success of any work.

Good luck on this piece, I know it will be gorgeous. Erase everything I have said and trust your own judgement, it is all you need.

Sincerely,

Michele Rushworth 04-26-2003 12:52 PM

I, too, love the first pose, but I think it would be a much stronger painting without any background elements.

The complexity of the hair, dress, flute and chair will keep this painting interesting. Check out Peggy Baumgaertner's compositons for strong, foreground shapes on very simple backgrounds. Classic.

Michele Rushworth 04-26-2003 01:05 PM

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Here's a possibility.

Mike McCarty 04-26-2003 09:53 PM

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Sharon,

I spent the day sketching and pondering the composition. I think that I am heading back to the big hair. It's not worth the grief of combining images.

I wouldn't shy away from giving your opinion. I'm a big boy, I can handle it. You guys are a terrific source of knowledge and I value your input, but in the end I will filter it all out through my own best judgment. And thanks for those very flattering remarks. You're no chopped liver yourself.


And by the way, I checked with my French student on the "cerise" color. "Cherry," she says. I'm looking to go a dark cherry red loosing into the background.

Michele,

I did one of those Photoshop renditions exactly like you have done. However, I think that I'm going to attempt the table with a vase and mass of loose formed and toned flowers. I'll include the single partial frame on the top right, lose the armoire and darken the wall as it goes off to our left. So the flowers, vase and table will be a mostly dark affair against a darker wall. At least that's today's plan. It could change tomorrow. Thanks Michele for going to the trouble, mine didn't look as good as yours.

In going through my images I cropped one down to the following that I like for another day. Probably a 16x20.

Michele Rushworth 04-26-2003 10:10 PM

I look forward to seeing your final painting, whichever direction you choose!


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