Daughter's first formal
 

My middle daughter had her first formal dance this evening. So inspired by that and my trip to the fabric shop for backdrops (without Sharon), I thought it would be fun to do a figurative piece from one of the following photos.

I would appreciate any input. Thanks!

I'll just number them, and not include my bias.

1.

You'll be able to tell how much fun she thought this was!

2.

Oh to be the daughter of a "learning" artist!

3.

4.

5. Just kidding! :cool:
Can you believe we all used to look like this?
(This is not my house.)

You

Beth,

If you are doing a figurative piece, I would definitely go with 2. my 2nd choice would be 1.

Hi
 

With a 5 year old I delight in the number of years I have to have a "free" model, and it's odd to think someday my little guy will be posing for their high school formal!

I concur that for a figurative painting #2 then #1 are the best choices. I'd caution though, should you choose #2, to balance the highlighted foreground of the dress compared to the less-contrasty area around the face, as the lower right of the composition is distracting from the face.

Also, there's that one area where the fabric bulges that should be modified.

Good luck, and I look forward to seeing the outcome.

Linda

Number two has some outstanding features. The subtlty of the background left and right, the subdued flowers, and the dress has great shapes.

I like the fact that her head is down and does not show the under side of her chin. The hands and gloves would be a challenge but worth it.

I might play down the chroma in the dress except in a couple of selected spots. I think the home run would be if you could paint this with her eyes to the camera.

Excuse me, Mike, but I think if she looks at the viewer instead of her gloves, she'll look like a stripper teasing you. The feel of the painting will be confrontational instead of candid.

Just my two cents.

Linda,

You're right it would change the story somewhat. It's interesting to me how a picture can convey different things to different people. To me the direct eye contact conveys confidence, not necessarily confrontation. If you can make people stop, linger and wonder about the story, this is a good thing.

This could be a good story regardless which way the eyes go. One thing for sure, it would be much easier painting the eyes as is.

So Beth you've got 3 days, ready start.

Get the camera out again!
 

Scrooge here!

What a delicious subject and color! OOH! Great background color, great with gown,what a fabulous opportunity!

A. Lose the gloves, burn them so you won't be tempted, they are way too strong.

B. Take advantage of your daughter's exquisite oval face, shoot straight on.

C. Shoot the whole thing straight on, play the oval of her face against against the square of her neckline, think Holbein's Anne of Cleves.

D. Pose her like Sargent's Miss Amy Vickers, the oval of her face will be repeated by the oval form of the arms. You can use this pose to show off the drape of the silk.

E. Or pose her like Sargent's Mrs. Gardner, only hands off to the side a little bit gathering up her dress, again to show off the texture of the silk.

F. Both poses, shoot higher so you don't see under the chin. In a standing pose, it is always wise to have your subject tuck their chin under, not so much as to add a roll of skin, the trick is to find just the right height of the lens. Seated figures are shot better with an 80mm lens, standing figures 50mm or 80mm. Shoot sitting figures higher than standing ones.

G. Additional touches. Add large 4" or 5" flower, same color as dress to the neck on a ribbon. Put a large colorful dark red ring on her finger the same side as the flower, her left side would be best.

H. When you design a portrait you have to consider many things, related shapes, design balance, color, tiny details that can make or break a picture.

Hope this helps,

Three addendums
 

Beth,

A. The chair is wrong. The shape, the color, the material. Too informal. In one of my portraits, a young girl on a pink chair, I found that chair and painted it to repeat the pink in her dress and flower, also to provide a complemetary counterpoint to the green background. No detail, even a seemingly minor one should be left to chance. I sometime take weeks and weeks to get all the details right, do thumbnail sketches, look for props, so when I go to shoot I know what I am after. Usually it goes very smoothly.

B. Add a great deal more rouge to her cheeks than you think proper, they always wash out and when you go to do the painting both from life and the photo it somehow works.

C. When you go to paint her look up my 8 head formula in one of the threads, it will make her look less chubby, which I see she is not by the last photo.

Sincerely,

Thank you all for this great input! I just really loved the colors in this one and the subject matter too! I must admit we took these very quickly to get her out the door and see now that I could have spent more time with the compostition. I asked her to sit again, and she said "NO WAY", then I said "Okay, I'll get Amanda to do it!" (her older sister) well that changed her mind!

Sharon, I think you must have done some photo styling with all the fashion illustration! ;)

Now you'll have to take me to the furniture markets too! My house is very southwestern and that is one of the more formal chairs I own. I hope the pink chair is on your site so I can go see it. Or could you link it here?

I forgot to tell you when I looked a the bolts of velvet fabric, ouch it was so expensive, that I cheated and purchased this faux Ultra Suede, I think it works for $3.00 a yard!

Regarding the first post of suggestions, I spent forever going through my books and the internet, and the following is all I could find by Sargent. None that exactly matched your titles, I threw Lady Agnew in their because it is my favorite. Are these close to what you were thinking about?

I'll also post Holbein's Anne of Cleves.

If anyone has the right portraits, could you please post them, I am thinking the ones above may not be them.

Here is Holbein's Anne of Cleves:

I meant Miss Elsie Palmer!
 

Beth,

I am sorry, that was the one I meant, the Holbein and the Mrs. Gardner are correct. The little girl in the pink wire chair is on my site.

On one portrait I did, I hired a florist, makeup artist and a photographer. I bought velvet to change the stairwell color, and bought and antiqued a 4' urn. You have to be a stylist.

I don't have the time to go into what I am presently doing on my own work but it is suitably nuts. I can't post the last 7' pastel ballet picture because she is nude on top. Genteel they ain't!

You could also stick the flower in her hair.

$3 a yard sounds great, whatever works!

Good luck, good design takes time!

Sincerely,

Further Nitpicks
 

Beth,

A. Make sure you keep the central focus on the extraordinary eyes and the strong arch of her eyebrows, everthing else should be secondary.

B. Make sure that the drape in the back is absolutely flat. You need a simple color plane, not additional folds to distract from the figure.

C. I always try to buy fabric in 3yd lenghts and 60" wide if possible. The wider width is great for 2 figures or lounging ones. They usually are upholstery lenghts, more expensive but I buy them in the basic background colors. I also use the most appropriate color for the picture, so I have had to compromise a bit sometimes. I use a background stand I got from a photo shop to hang the fabrics from. It holds backdrops up to 6', is portable and adjustable.

D. Now you won't have the time OR the money to feed your family. Relax, take your time, savor the experience.

Sincerely,

I really hate to do this to you guys, but Gwen and I had a lot of fun following the suggestions above and came up with a number of compostitions.

I sent composites of all the new ones, 18 modified poses to two of the "photographers" I really admire here, and received input from one and I think I had the wrong address for the other.

Please keep a sense of humor, because I am going to post the top 7 favorites. I am thinking I would like to do one in pastel and one in oil.

Thanks for your vote and comments.:)

My color balance seems to be over exposed in this series vs. the ones I posted earlier.

Thanks Mike for the help with the flowers, as you can see I have applied your idea throughout.

My dog wanted to be in every shot! :)

I like how the lines flow on the one above.

I added the ring to the gloved hand, but I think I would lose the flowers in the hair, or add something different to the one above.

Number 3!!
 

Hi Beth,

I am typing with one hand - due to breaking my middle finger on my drawing (left) hand so, lucky you, I'll be brief!

I absolutely love number 3 - especially with the dog in perfect composure and beautiful! I know Renee Price will love it also - she owns a Boston Terrier too. I have a shihtzu, Roxy. Anyway, I've been following this thread and really truly enjoying your photos of your teen (I paint mine too, remember?) That dress is great and the similar color in the background is interesting, even though I think I would have gone with something different - more champagne like. I totally trust Sharon though and would change it to whatever she says.

I can't paint right now for more than 5 minutes with hours of rest in between and watching everyone else paint seems to be my only choice. Please keep posting your progress!

I loved your portrait of Marius - and his story makes the painting so much more meaningful - thank you for sharing it with us.

Good luck on this painting - whatever you decide to do!

Denise

Hi
 

Hi Beth,

I think this opinion may be against the grain of other opinons on this thread, but I think the choices #2 & #1 out of the first batch are far better than any of the recent ones. My criticism would be of the new shots - The way she is sitting (facing you squarely) is less flattering to her figure, and there's nothing ladylike about it. I don't think the dog helps the matter either. She's a beautiful girl but the composition is not doing her any favors. I'm very sorry to sound negative, but between the ungraceful pose and yet the flower in her hair, the whole thing feels awkward to me.

I seem to remember that you were planning this to be a figurative work and not a portrait per se. I think these new images are intending to be a portrait and not a figuratve piece. As either, I just visualize this as being more successful if from the original selections.

I'm so curious to see your outcome from this!

Linda

I agree with Linda, Beth. Although I like no.4 from this batch.

I can't resist giving an opinion. All the following refers to the second batch. Right now, my favorite is #1, though perhaps a bit over-seductive for one so young.

In #2, she looks angry or disgusted.

In #3, the hands are not graceful and she looks rigid.

In #4, the position looks awkward, the crease in the neck is not graceful either and I could imagine she just saw a mouse and is recoiling.

In #5, I like this one, though might have been better if her hands had been down lower.

#6 and #7, I don't find inspiring.

Had to comment
 

I like #1 as a figurative piece, even if seductive. It tells a story, and 50 years from now no one will know her age.

Jean

The model as a Gumby Doll
 

Hi,

I see this has become an all SOG project!

I have been photographing models for over 30 years, stemming from my various lives as a fashion illustrator to illustrator to portrait artist and now to my current work based loosely on ballet. I can tell you that this is one of the most frustrating and difficult things to learn and do. You just want to go in and bend arms, fingers and legs to the positions you want, unfortunately you often find a human attached to them.

I find the best way to approach it is to have a rather firm mental visual of what you want, and thumbnails to show your model. Once you have a good basic pose do subtle variations on that, do not make drastic changes, a simple head change or finger movement can change a picture from ordinary to magic.

The model does not always have to be comfortable, some of the most graceful poses can be somewhat difficult.

When you look at Sargets languishing women, especially Mrs. Agnew, remember she was wearing a corset as well as all his female subjects. This gave the torso form and design. Today we have to substitute a little more erectness of posture so stomachs don't stick out and to prevent the midsection from getting scrunched.

With that said, try some more sitting poses,have her legs turned more to our right. Importantly in sitting pictures shoot a little higher than you have. This would minimize Gwen's full chin also. You can have her legs crossed, arms on either side, just don't let her slump. Some of the pictures will have a more relaxed look anyway. Replace the white scarf with a deeper lavender one to match the flower. Go for subtle changes in expression. If the dog shows up fine!

Get in there and move draping around, tuck fabric under thighs, whatever you have to do. You have to have good knees. I had to do a book cover once of two lovers lying on a couch with fur coats, silk pillows, you name it. I got them all posed and the couple started sliding off the edge of the couch. I had to crawl on my hands and knees to push them back up.

Don't be so anxious to get to the picture, use this as a very necessary learning experience.

By the way your lighting is beautiful!

Sincerely,

Foam Heads
 

Beth,

Several more notes.

A. The reason I objected to the first shot of Gwen in the chair was that the chair filled the center of the page. The light hit the hard rectangular edge and distracted your eye from the subject. The chair style, color and fabric were not compatible with the dress. A French Bergere chair in black would have provided a nice shape, a dark note to separate it slightly from the background and would have set off the dress nicely.

B. If you do use a floral bouquet, make it large enough so it will show up if you put it slightly behind a figure, instead of off to the side where it is again a distraction.

C. I always ask my clients their heights. I drag around a cheap foam head for wigs on a stand wrapped with the color of the garment. I use this to check focal lenghts, background details,lighting, see if I need some additional props, etc. I treat my models as if they are going to melt in an hour so I try to be really prepared.

Sincerely,