Educating the Adult Artist
 

As an adult artist with a large family, and one who has talent, but very little art training, my question is this: How does an adult receive the kind of art education necessary to become a great artist?

I am aware of the fantastic art workshops available world wide. However, because of my lack of training in the classics, etc., I feel very intimidated and unqualified to attend (not to mention the time committment to go to France for a summer). I know I can benefit from more training.

The last "college class" I signed up for at our local community college took me at least a year after to find my own style again. I found all of my work looked like the instructor's.

Also, many workshops or classes are juried and will only accept intermediate to advanced or professional. How does one decide if the work I produce is of that caliber?

Education comes in many forms and I've gained a great deal from this site! ;)

Julianne: Your point is well taken. There are many ways the adult artist can improve themselves without committing to an Atelier or lengthy school.

My first recommendation would be to read everything you can get your hands on about art. Specifically, the books listed on this site can help a lot, and there are many many other books on drawing and anatomy that can help if you read and do some drawing from them. I recommend drawing books by Tony Ryder and Giovanni Civardi and Burne Hogarth, and painting books by Chris Saper, Harley Brown, and Frank Covino as a good start.

Also, let me recommend Georgio Vassari's The Lives of the Painters, and Cennino Cennini's Il Libro Del Arte. These two books from 1550 and about 1437 are wonderful reading and very insightful into the techniques and lives of the great master painters of old.

Second, I can highly recommend that you try to find an open studio or life drawing class in your area and go as often as you can for years and years. Drawing what you physically see in front of you - especially people - will greatly help your skills, and it helps to keep your work fresher regardless of what you are creating, or what you are creating from.

Finally, there are a number of really good artists giving week long workshops around the country. A week with a really good artist can change your whole world. You are correct that you will need to sort what you learn and not just make yourself a copy of them, but the experience is valuable nonetheless. I recommend William Whitaker, David Leffel, Sherrie McGraw, Timothy Taylor, and Frank Covino for workshops that will be worth every penny you pay for them.

Hope that helps. :)

Teach your children well
 

I hate to be a party pooper (actually I don

Marvin, you raise a good point. Even I have to admit that I got most of my basics from an actual teacher, not from a book, and once I understood the basics, what I could learn from a book went up considerably.

In my case, the teachers have been other artists who have generously taken time away from their painting to teach me. My first teacher was an illustrator named David Martin. From him I learned the absolute basics of drawing, painting, color, value, etc. I then went on to Frank Covino who taught me more about painting, value, color and so much more. My latest teacher has been Bill Whitaker who has helped me see alternatives that will help me improve and really helped me refine my work. Bill has also provided some basics that I never got like painting from life under natural light.

So while it may not be optimal, I believe that it is possible for an adult artist to get good training and learn the basics over a spread out period of time.

Julianne, as I'm sure you've gathered, learning to be the best artist you can be is a never-ending adventure and you've got a lot of work ahead of you. I've been producing professional artwork of one kind or another for over twenty years and I also feel I still have a lot of learning and work ahead of me, too. The most accomplished artists on this site would probably also say the same thing about themselves.

So, yes, there's a lot to learn, but don't be discouraged.

To the lengthy list of what Michael and Marvin have given you, I would add one more source of knowledge: museums. Marvin gives a lecture he calls, "Everything I Know About Art I Learned at the Met" (meaning the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York).

Go to your local art museum or visit museums whenever you travel to another city. Visit often, peer closely and copy if you can, for practice.

Neverending
 

Just to fortify what Michele said, my experience is that the more you know, the worse you are.

Show me an artist who doesn't feel that way and I guarantee you their work looks exactly as it did the day they realized they had "made it."

Ignorance is bliss.

I agree with all the previous posts that there are many ways in which one can learn the fundamentals of art. I too have attended many classes, taken private lessons and attended workshops. After all the time and money I have invested in

Reality check up
 

Sorry Enzie. I hate to say it, but, in my experience, it just don't work that way. Had I not met and studied with John Murray who studied with Frank Reilly who studied with Dean Cornwell and Frank Dumond who studied with Gerome who studied with Delaroche who studied with David, it would have taken several lifetimes to arrive at the point I am now. That's a heck of a lot of accumulated knowledge that each subsequent generation has both digested and added to.

How can one possibly strengthen a weakness that is a result of being left to one's own devices to begin with? If you knew what your weaknesses really were they wouldn't be weaknesses. The history of Western Art was built on a tradition of great masters training apprentices who in turn became great masters, etc.

David begot Ingres, Bouguereau begot Leyendecker, Carlos Duran begot Sargent, Gerome begot Paxton and Eakins. Life is simply not long enough for one to develop knowledge and understanding on one's own.

I'm afraid you haven't studied with the right teacher. You have a lot of talent but based on the amount of time you have invested you should not be having the kind of problems that I see in your work. If you think that by listening to advice from people who are simultaneously asking you for advice is the path to artistic savvy, I think you are in for a big surprise.

The forum is great but anyone who thinks they will become a great artist using the advice here is borderline delusional. I just doesn't work that way. Find yourself a master, surrender and save yourself decades of spinning your wheels.

I hope you take this in the spirit it is offered, a kindly stranger offering directions to a fellow traveler.

Since others have already given much better advice on the rest of your post than I could I would just like to make a comment about who can decide when your work is of what caliber.

Put aside judges and juried shows, since these are often based on certain bias no matter how objective they try and be. Not a bad thing, due to varied tastes, it leaves plenty of room for all kinds of work. But it really has little value in your own growth as an artist if others, even very knowledgeable others, like your work.

I prefer to always answer this when asked with, YOU. What do I mean? If you look at your own work with a critical eye and then look at work of others I think if you are honest with yourself you have a pretty good idea how your work compares. I am not saying that your work must be the same as someone else's. But if you look at your work you can see if your drawing is good, if your values are correct and so on.

Of course it helps to know what you are looking for. But that is were the other replies to your post come in about education. Even when you haven't learned about edges and how to handle paint you can look at a good painting and you can recognize that it is good even if you are not sure yet what makes it so, or why it is appealing to you.

If you truly want to improve you must work on developing a critical eye. How do you develop this? By looking at great works of art, for one thing, and also by studying the things around you. I mean really looking and recording in your mind what you see.

You might get a few odd looks at parties when you get caught staring at a person's nose under a particular light or your significant other may jab you in the ribs for looking at something else when they are trying to talk to you. But so what? You're an artist. Just reply that you are working on developing your critical eye.

Then look at your work with this same eye. Does what you painted hold up to what you saw in nature or does that passage of paint have the finish of that painting you saw in the museum? You will know when your work is good when you can look at it and say, yes, I think I handled that area pretty well.

You will know when it is not good also. It amazes me that those whose drawing skills need work ask what is wrong with their painting. I always think they must already know. After all, we all could see if a person walked up to us with a distorted face so why can't you see it in our work. Of course you can. But you must want to see it. Be critical and honest and you will know when your work is good or not. This was just an example, not meant to be directed at anyone in particular.

On a side note, don't be discouraged. A certain amount of dissatisfaction with everything you have done so far is a healthy thing. It helps you grow. Heaven forbid I ever feel I have made a prefect painting. I might just give it all up. After all, what goal could I set after that?

Thankfully I doubt I will ever have to worry about that since there is so much in nature to challenge the artist. Trying to capture life on a 2-D canvas and light with just paint will always come up short, so no matter how good we get, if we keep working on that critical eye it will always tell us we still have work to do.

There is still plenty to learn about the use of paint and how to apply it and about design and composition and that is where the instruction you asked about comes in. Without developing a critical eye of your own you will never be able to take what you have learned and apply it to your own ends. It is up to you to develop this.

It cannot be taught. Guided, yes, but taught, no. Why? Because your critical eye must also be unique to your view of the world. Others can guide you on your journey but only you know where you want to go.

Marvin makes more good points. I have been blessed with very good teachers who really have saved me decades of frustration, and I have been lucky enough to be able to find the time to go and work with them when the door was opened to me.

However, I will disagree just a bit on the value of self study and the value of forums like this one. There are those out there who will talk you out of painting altogether if you let them, with doom and gloom stories of your artistic career. (Please understand that I am not talking about Marvin here):

"If yea do not get thy self hence to an Atelier forthwith and doth sacrifice thy life and livelyhood to the great plaster cast...foresoothe the sky will fall and cleave thy skull which thee don't know how to draw, and thy career will perish in smoke and flame to the ruination of thee and thy family and thy decendants!"

Let's face it, many of us have children, families, mortgages, and car payments. These realities of life are not forgiving while we at midlife or later up and go off for four plus years to find the basics of art. Mind you, if you have the means and time, then by george, get thee hence, but most of us don't and thereby are forced to find other means of improving our art without leaving for lengths of school.

You cannot and should not sit politely on your hands while you wait for the great master to come to your door and fulfill all of your artistic dreams - you have to go to the mountain, and you have to be elbow deep in the paint when you get there.

So, I will still encourage you to read all you can, go to a life drawing class as often as you can for years and years, and realize that teachers are out there who can really help you. However, you may have to forestall the four year hiatus from your life and settle instead for one week a year for several years.

I have found that the universe gives you exactly what you need if you first act to help yourself.

I had no idea I would receive such an abundance of information, advice and encouragement! Thank you all! My quest now is to seek out all knowledge of art in the universe. HA! Starting with the fundamentals has always seemed such a bore. Yada, yada, yada. Well, not anymore! I used to think, why spend a full class time drawing spheres and cubes, then apples and oranges? Well now I see the light.

I've now begun asking myself, "Have you ever seen a perfectly drawn (or painted) orange? It's gorgeous"! Knowledge is always something we want "right now" but need to aquire over time.

I, too, am impatient and want to become a great painter NOW, but alas, will have to wait. My greatest desire is to create a great painting on purpose instead of feeling it was serendipity (or happy accident). Kudos to you all. I've seen the light!

Thought we might have scared you away. :)
 

One other thought.

How much you put into your art ultimately depends on what you want out of your art. It also has to do with how you individually define success and your ambition.

I think that the term "great artist" means different things to different people. For some, it may mean getting into some local galleries, others may not be satisfied until they are in the Met. One thing is for certain:

Your dedication needs to exceed your ambition.

Your plan of action and your dedication need to exceed your final intent while still taking into consideration the realities of your life.

Being an artist is like being a pianist or an athlete. Do you want to play on alternate Sundays in your church, or do you want to give a solo recital in Madison Square Garden?

The training, study, and commitment you need to undertake for art is no different. If you want to be in the Met, then you need to work a plan to get you there and you need to realize that it will take you just as much (or more) effort and time to get to the Met as it does a concert musician to get to Madison Square Garden or an Olympic athlete to get into and win a medal in the Olympics.

You may find that taking a workshop once a year is enough to satisfy your ambitions, or you may find yourself quitting a day job and taking risks with your financial future to give more time to your art. It can be very scary, but also wonderfully fulfilling.

I like to say that art is not just an adventure, it's a job. It's a job that gives back as much as you put into it. So, ultimately, you need to define your ambitions and what you feel is "success" to your own standards and within the limits of your life.

Leave the definition of greatness for posterity.

Marvin,

You have just validated the point I was trying to make by commenting about the problems in my work. I refuse to blame others for my shortcomings, but I will start blaming myself for not learning one thing at a time before moving on.

My experience has taught me that it makes no sense to overload yourself with information, regardless if it is gained through an art class, private instruction, reading books etc., if you (the artist) have not taken the time to truly apply and understand the teachings that you have already received.

I have never disagreed that you shouldn

I suppose it all depends on where you came from more than where you are now. If you were able to get instruction when you were young but then got sidetracked you are in a different situation as an adult than one who had no early instruction and is starting late in life. Also, what are your priorities and your goals?

Since you can't change the past you must deal with the situation you're in now. I would have loved to have dedicated my life early on to painting but I cannot change it now. Although I started creating art very young and continued to draw and paint throughout my early life to some extent, I was already in my twenties before I even started my formal education in art and really took it seriously as a possible career.

When I look at artists who are in their early twenties that already have MBAs and a list of awards and famous commissions I could easily get discouraged and say, oh well, I missed my shot at becoming great. And in some ways it might be true.

If you are good at a young age and then get training early then you can worry about nothing but art. You are in a great position when you get to the point of having to earn a living to be able to earn it from your art. Since an artist starting out really needs to be unhindered by thoughts of paying bills and what the market is and how to sell this to make a living.

When you are starting out, even if you are very gifted, your early work will not be something you want to have hanging around later. Even if it is very good you do not start out selling at top rates.

If you want to have a better than average home, a nice car (or two), make sure your kids go to a good school, which often means living in a more expensive area with high property values and higher taxes to pay for those schools, it gets even harder.

Once, when in college, I figured out how much work I would need to sell and at what price to make just $20,000/year. In the area I live that is near poverty level for a family of 4. At the time I was thinking of illustration commissions and I took the average a starting illustrator might get per commission, then figured out how many I needed to do a year at that rate.

I soon figured I needed to get better than a starting rate to earn a living. It was very disheartening to learn also that the average salary for visual artists even some 20 years later in 1997 was still in that $20-30,000 range. And average for those with experience and who were established still was only in the high 30s.

These were the successful ones. The rest don't even make enough to cover the cost of their supplies in a year. So as an adult starting out, forget earning a living from your art.

Now if you can find a spouse who makes a good living and is willing to be the primary bread winner then you're all set. You can just work on your craft and if it sells, fine. If not, no big deal. You still have a roof over your head and your kids can get new clothes and the latest Nikes. Now, for a man this is unacceptable even today.

There are some, maybe even more than a few, women willing to support their husbands as they struggle with their art career. I do not think it is the norm for a woman to accept this role. Since we hear so much about the glass ceiling it might even be hard for a woman to earn a high enough salary to allow this, even if she was willing unless you were both ready to make sacrifices in order to live on a lower income.

It may be that I want a better than average home and income that causes me so much agonizing over money but, heck, what we do is much harder than what a plumber does and these guys want $80-100/hour to come and put in a bathroom. And all they need to know is hot's on the left, cold's on the right .... pay me 50% up front. (Just a joke guys. Don't hit me with your monkey wrenches.)

I can only speak for myself and my ego but I have a hard time not being able to earn my own way and if I have a family (which I do) I feel it is my job as the man to provide for them, not my wife's. So I have had to do many jobs (luckily most art related) to earn enough money that I could both support my family and be able to continue to work on my art.

Though it would be nice to drop it all and enroll in some atelier until my work rivaled Sargent's or Bouguereau's that is not a reality for most adult artists, man or woman. It takes a double income family to just get by in many cases these days.

What I am saying, besides alienating myself from every woman artist and plumber reading this post, is if you are young or still not tied down by a family to support, then go do it now while you still can.

It is almost impossible to focus on just improving and growing as an art student and also earn an income as a working artist since it really is two separate goals. If you are not in that position then do whatever it takes to continue your art even if it means slower progress. Slow progress is still better than no progress.

Looking in all the wrong places
 

Michael,

Far from being put off, I'm ROFL(ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING). I've detailed here the list of things I gave up in order to paint, and learn to my heart's content. Family members continuously urge me to marry well, so I can regain my fat mortgage and be supported while I paint. They were really put off by my announcement that Thanksgiving dinner would not be here at my humble cottage.

The thing is..... even women find it hard to pair up with someone who is earning enough for two! But now that you mention it..... I've been overlooking the plumbers union hall!

All kidding aside, I've gleaned a great deal from this thread. It was very timely for me. I've got to find an artist in the Central Florida area who is giving class groups. Perhaps we can share leads on the various geographical areas where small classes are being offered by truly gifted teachers.

Hello Julianne,

I think you have had a ton of input from varying personalities here and one thing I did not read, (perhaps I missed it because I know it is in abundance here) is simply PASSION.

Since you said "adult artist" I am assuming you were once a "young artist"? When we start to live our lives it is interesting the directions people take to make a living or a life with a family, but the foundations are set for many in their youth. In addition to having great teachers, references, be it video or books, workshops and very importantly

Spinning color wheels
 

Beth, you had me at

Marvin this might be what Michael said too, but the above is my quote. The reason I point that out is perhaps, it was a statement you might validate.

Second, I want to clarify:

[quote] Elizabeth, if your professors couldn

Example 2:

Beth
 

I think I'm exempt, right?

I have a few remarks...

Sargent said you will learn more from painting than from study.

Bettina Steinke said she didn't do anything worth a ---- before she was 50.

Trips to workshops in exotic locations like Europe can be great fun, you might however learn closer to home.

Pursuing art
 

There are times that I beat myself up for allowing "life" to get in the way of pursuing a career in art. At these times I try to remind myself that my life experiences are what will make me a better artist. The school of hard knocks can be a powerful teacher. All I need to do now is let nothing come in the way again and do the work! This forum is what I have available to me now and I use it for everything I can get out of it. So Marvin, regardless of how you feel about learning from this forum, I am soaking up as much knowledge as I can. I learn from looking at your work, and everyone else's. So regardless of your disdain for internet learning, I'm finding it to be invaluable and am sincerely appreciative of the advice and wealth of information here.

Jean

The long and winding road
 

I am not now or have I ever been a member of the Communist Party.

Jean,

Seriously I never meant to infer that one couldn't profit and learn from this Forum. An effective teacher is anyone who knows more than you.

My point was that those with serious aspirations will need to be fueled by serious study. I also believe that we can all benefit from each of our life's experiences and personally I wouldn't want to give back one second of it, mistakes and all.

I

Just a quick note, since someone commented on the value of self-study and learning from Internet forums. I no longer have the financial means to lay out $600 for a workshop. Or even $300, for that matter.

Further, what passes for painting instruction in my area is not geared toward what I want to do. (That's saying it nicely, I'll just leave it there). So diligent self-study and asking questions on the Internet is all I have.

But know that when I ask questions or am even given unsolicited advice on something I will always, without exception, go and attempt what I was told. Many folks in different forums have offered advice on a range of subjects only to have me post an example a short time later of my attempt to duplicate/understand what they were speaking about. I will never waste anyone's time here or on any forum.

Will I ever sell at large galleries? I doubt it. Will I ever get a portrait commission? Maybe. But I will still strive to paint as well as Michael or Mr. Mattelson, and I will never let my lack of resources be used as an excuse not to put out 100%.

Minh

I've been lurking around this Forum for awhile now and wish to offer encouragement for those people who do not have access to good teachers. There is certainly more than one way to learn the basics of art and this Forum is a very good way to learn. Because of what I have read here, I have been newly inspired to invest much of my time seriously drawing.

I have learned a lot from the many generous teachers here who have been willing to give their time, expertise and demonstrations. I am grateful that I have found this place and in the very short period of time that I have been here my work has steadily improved.

:thumbsup: This Forum is an answer to a prayer and it is foolish to pretend that it isn't a viable teaching tool.