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Jean Kelly 11-22-2002 06:42 PM

New haircut
 
This is a commission that I need to have delivered by Christmas. It's from a picture again, and I don't even know this little boy's name. Please advise on any problems with composition now, before I go further. I'm not very confident of my understanding of tangents, but have tried not to create any. Sky will be a soft blue.

It's 28" x 22", oil on canvas. Again, I've chosen warm light, with cool shadows, alizarin crimson, lemon yellow, cadmium scarlet, with Winsor violet and a touch of raw umber to cool the shadows.

Jean

Jean Kelly 11-22-2002 06:44 PM

Forgot to post the painting!
 
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Hello again.

Steven Sweeney 11-22-2002 07:17 PM

Jean,

I'm going to just quickly respond to your query about tangents, before it gets lost in the subsequent discussion.

Often this is couched in terms of not letting objects or shapes "kiss". Imagine, say, two billiard balls, visually side-by-side, their circumferences just touching (or "kissing"). The effect is that it's quite difficult to judge depth, to say for sure whether the objects are in fact side by side, or one nearer to you than the other. If you eliminate that "kiss" by moving one ball slightly into your line of vision of the other (whether in front or behind the other), you immediately establish depth.

Another "kiss" to be avoided might be where the top of the subject's head meets exactly the line of the horizon.

What do you do if there's actually a problem with tangents in nature? You change your composition to get rid of it. Move the billiard balls (either closer to or even farther apart from each other.) Place apple partially in front of the teapot rather than alongside it. Put the portrait subject on a model stand, or take your reference photos from a lower angle. Whatever it takes.

I don't spot any such problems in this work thus far.

Chris Saper 11-22-2002 08:22 PM

Jean,

I see three potential tangent problems to watch.

First, the horizon line seems to become the same shape as the curl(?) in the subject's hair on our left. The two shapes are the same value, so you can't tell where one ends and the other begins. The red dot at the horizon line forms the point of a triangle of dark foliage that sits out to the left of the subject's ear on our left. The effect is of large dark arrow, whose tail drops off into almost a pony-tail shape. You could correct this tangent by altering the placement and curve of the horizon line, and/or lightening the dark foliage so it is visually distinguishble from the hair.

Second, the lower edge of the triangle converges with the lower part of the ear, collar and vest, so that the area of the lower red dot competes with your center of interest for attention. One way to correct the triangle problem as well as the collar tangent would be to lighten the value of the foliage in the triangle.You can still have ininteresting vairety of darks and lights inthe foliage without creating this shape in this location.

Third, there is almost a straight line connecting the shapes of the upper edge of the vest and the top edge of the far hand. If you squint, you'll see that the sides of the vest and the hand from a dark "X". One way to correct this is to move the far hand downward in order to break the line.

I hope this helps; if it is unclear, please let me know.

Chris Saper 11-22-2002 08:24 PM

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Here's the image.

Steven Sweeney 11-22-2002 08:42 PM

Better eye than mine, Chris. I was "stuck" on forms and not thinking in terms of extending lines to possible problem areas.

Having said that, I saw and failed to mention the tangent of the back of the elbow with the back of the vest.

Chris Saper 11-22-2002 08:56 PM

Yes, Steven, good eye. And Jean, I am also seeing that you will want to avoid shapes forming parallel lines...that is, the lower edge of the vest, and the lower ege of the arm. To correct change the vest, because the arm will be too difficult to do plausibly without reshooting your model.

(Tangents, to me, are a little like the kid's game, "Where's Waldo?".) They like to sneak up on painters.

Jean Kelly 11-22-2002 10:32 PM

Tangents
 
Thank you for the lookover, Chris and Steven. I understand what you are saying, Chris, and now am glad I posted this. I'll change the color of the foliage by the first two dots and lower his hand per your suggestion.

I didn't take this picture, but felt it wasn't too bad to work from. The background is just a lot of people milling around, so the foliage is made up. The picture was cut off by his elbow, so I added the lower hand, vest, and pants. I'll be borrowing my grandson (age 3) over the weekend to give me a real hand to work from.

The only thing I know about this child is thst he just got his first haircut and is Hispanic. Chris, I'm using your book again for help with skin tones. It has been invaluable. Never thought mixing these colors could be so frustrating and fun. I have a lot to learn.

Thanks again,
Jean

Jean Kelly 11-22-2002 10:35 PM

Forgot the vest
 
I can easily change the bottom and edge below the elbow since It's made up anyway!

Jean

Chris Saper 11-22-2002 10:46 PM

Jean,

I can't count the number of times when my photographed subjects' hands needed just a little "tweaking", and I called into service either of my children, or borrowed others', in order to have the right source.* To some extent the elements of your portrait that are supportive can be relatively conceptual. If I can get organized, this might be an interesting thread to start.
Quote:

I'll change the color of the foliage by the first two dots
Jean, changing the value is more important than changing the hue.

* I include my hands as willing culprits here. What tales!

Jean Kelly 11-22-2002 10:50 PM

Conceptual
 
I'll watch for it.

Jean

Lon Haverly 11-26-2002 03:26 AM

Tangents, eh? New to me. I was never good at algebra.

Jean Kelly 11-26-2002 12:09 PM

Josh's new haircut
 
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I've made the changes discussed earlier, and can see the difference. Thanks, Chris and Steven. Now all I have to watch for is edges, color, value, tone, consistency, and everything else that is taught on this forum! Oil is forgiving so any other comments will be welcomed.

Jean

Jean Kelly 11-26-2002 12:17 PM

Seeing it smaller
 
Now that I see it on the monitor, there still seems to be a straight line from his vest to upper hand. Should I lower it further? (the hand)

Steven Sweeney 11-26-2002 08:34 PM

Just shooting from the hip, I think you might have actually introduced another "tangent" issue by bringing the sky color down so far on the left side of the head, for now the top of the foliage aligns with the collar/neck. And while of course there will be variation in the height of the foliage, the substantial difference now between that height on either side of the head kinds of reads as a disconnect for me.

As for the vest/hand lines, yes, I still see the same problem, but easily taken care of, I think, by just letting the line of the vest "form fit" his body, curving downward to the button area, so that the "V" points toward the middle of the hand instead of along its top edge.

Jean Kelly 11-26-2002 10:39 PM

Diagonals!
 
I'm headed back to the canvas again. Will keep repeating to myself, no diagonals, no diagonals, no diagonals. Thanks Steven, you confirmed what I saw as soon as I posted it.

Jean

Jean Kelly 12-01-2002 02:30 PM

Help with skin tones
 
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I'll finally be back to painting today after a long week of new grandson, Thanksgiving, wedding and birthday. It will be refreshing to escape to painting.

I'd like some advice on the skin tones for this child. The photos I have show him with orangish skin and I'd like to try to get away from the photo look if possible. Since I've never seen him in person I need to go by the pictures. I thought he was Hispanic, but he's actually a true multi-national child! African-american, Caucasion, and Hispanic.

I hope all tangents are taken care of at this point (or will be). Please disregard the lower hand as I'm still working on it. I also want to bring red into the painting and am thinking of changing pants to a deep alizarin crimson, and adding a crimson pattern to the tie.

Jean

First the painting:

Jean Kelly 12-01-2002 02:32 PM

Josh in reality
 
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Now the photo:

Jean Kelly 12-03-2002 01:04 AM

Skin tones
 
Well, I've spent the last two days mixing different skin tones. And think I've found my solution, I'll just mix them all together! Just kidding. Actually I did resolve my own problem, and things are starting to fall in place. I wish that the reference photo was lit from other than above. I don't care for the large shadow area on his forehead. I remember from another thread that its not so much how you paint but what you paint. Another gem to keep in mind for the future. Will post my progress in a few days.

Jean

Jean Kelly 12-03-2002 05:57 PM

Update
 
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I've switched the light to a cool light with warm shadows, following Chris's book. It has made all the difference. Client saw it today and said I nailed the skin tones. Now I have to switch all the rest of the painting, but I'm feeling better about it. Thanks again, Chris.

Jean

Steven Sweeney 12-03-2002 07:16 PM

Yes, this little guy is coming along nicely.

Just a couple of Post-it Notes to stick on the wall for later.

I know that you're working on something else right now (skin tones), but come back to the transitions between the value areas and make sure they aren't too sharply defined, which will "read" as one flat plane turning quickly into another one. Even in the photo I can see that some of the purest color lies in those slower, softer transition areas. It will be easier to introduce that effect if you're working in wet paint, so that you can more effectively and seamlessly knit the areas together. Don't be reticent to repaint the adjoining areas if necessary, in order to have enough material on the canvas to work with.

The diffuse top lighting is making things difficult to read (as you already know). One area that I think could profit from the slightest tweak is across the top of the forehead. I think I'd reserve your brightest, coolest light for a relatively smaller area and gradually admit a bit more color and warmth as the planes of the forehead move out of that direct light (around the temples and as the light area meets the middle tone across the middle of the forehead). This will be subtle, as you'll have to still keep that slight enhancement within the "light" value of that area as a whole.

One last "value" note. The nose looks pinched, and I can see that it's because the small triangular shadow shape describing the upper wing of the nose is too dark, suggesting a stronger recess in form there than I think is indicated in the photo.

This may seem now paradoxical to say, but make any such modifications in the same painting style you're already using. This isn't a piece that will tolerate "overworking" in this or that area, so keep having the fun with it, too, that we're already seeing.

Cheers.

Steven Sweeney 12-03-2002 07:24 PM

Another look on the way out, regarding the light areas on either side of the lower lip. Again, despite the diffuse top lighting, I think you'll want to pick one side or the other as "deserving" of the brighter of the two highlights, and warm and color the other one just enough to differentiate it.

Jean Kelly 12-04-2002 01:00 PM

Okay Steven
 
I got it all. Thanks! Now back to painting.

Jean

Jeanine Jackson 12-04-2002 11:40 PM

Lessons Learned
 
This is becoming a delightful painting. Have you found out the boy's name?

The cool light, warm shadow is great here. I would suggest keeping some cool areas where skin has youthful transparency, such as temples and cheek. Avoid ruddiness. If this should become confusing (as it is right now to me), I would refer back to Chris's book!

As Rosie O'Donnell would say, "He's a cutie pattutie!" I'd call him "CP."

Jean Kelly 12-05-2002 12:32 PM

Hi Jeanine
 
This cutie-pattutie is named Josh. I think his parents think he's adorable too! He's eighteen months old, but looks older than that in this photo. I told the client that I could not paint him without knowing his name and at least something about him. I talk to my work as I do it, and was getting tired of calling him "hey kid".

It feels good to wake up in the morning and read such a nice comment. Thank you. I've watched your hard work on "Gillian" over the past weeks, and am positive your client will love it. And also, she doesn't need an amethyst bracelet, the line of her arm is graceful as-is.

Jean

Jean Kelly 12-06-2002 02:19 PM

Home stretch
 
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I've made changes to his face as Steven has suggested. Added pale ultramarine blue highlights on left forehead, under eye and on left nostril. Widened his nose, added pale lemon yellow to area under lower lip. I've also deepened areas of his hair and added his tendrils. I've added warm color to the "turn" of the forehead and nose, also under his right lower lip. I like this little guy. It'll be hard to part with him.

Jean

Jean Kelly 12-06-2002 02:26 PM

Changing the rest
 
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Switching the color scheme in the clothing. I've changed the shirt color to pale ultramarine blue, with alizarin crimson added to the shadows. Cooled the vest with pale Winsor green and will be deepening the shadows more. I'm not sure what pigment I'll add to the deeper shadows yet. Time to play again!

Jean

Steven Sweeney 12-06-2002 07:35 PM

Wow, that's fun to see. You know, very often when I'm making those kinds of suggestions, I have to sit here and just visualize what might play out, but it's difficult, once you get two or three modifications going at once, to predict how they'll work together.

The softening of the transitions and the work on values and temperature have not only made for a better appearance overall in the representation, but have given back to this little guy some of the character we can see in the photo.

As George Peppard used to say, cigar in hand, "I love it when a plan comes together."

Jean Kelly 12-06-2002 09:44 PM

Steven and Chris
 
Thank you! With Chris sitting next to me and you calling the shots how could I lose.:sunnysmil

Jean

Chris Saper 12-06-2002 09:54 PM

Hey! What do you mean Steven calling the shots!!!

Steven Sweeney 12-06-2002 10:50 PM

I'm sure that Jean meant only to cater to my delusions.

Jean Kelly 12-07-2002 06:30 PM

No fighting you two
 
I said that a lot to my kids! You are not delusional, Steven, you have a precise writing style that is easy to understand and a good eye for detail. Your critiques are well written and to the point.

And Chris, your use of color brings a painting to life. I often go back to your work and study areas for the unusual combinations that you make "work". I read your book and everytime I'm stuck with something I try to make up your voice in my head. "What color is that shadow? Look at your husband, sons, grandchildren, people on the street. You are a portrait artist now, you can stare as much as you want!"

Steven, why don't you write a book, too? Then you can sit on my other side and the two of you can advise at the same time. (Giggle) Hope you like animals!

Jean

Steven Sweeney 12-08-2002 01:34 AM

Quote:

Steven, why don't you write a book, too?
Funny you should mention that, for I have just received by return freight carrier my 583-page manuscript for an introduction to charcoal and its uses in the fine and culinary arts. [Note to myself: get steaks in the marinade for barbecue tonight.] The editors -- though I suspect it was in fact a new and untested editorial assistant, or even a so-called "first reader" -- suggested that three strong, brief (underlined four times!) paragraphs would suffice. There were also the usual remarks about contractual deadlines, yadda yadda, and some other suggestions about what I could do with my manuscript.

What kidders those publishing people are!

Anyway, while I'm outlining my views on perspective, I've printed out and "perfect bound" (nice touch, don't you think, instead of the spiral?) an unabridged set of my Forum posts, in random order. I'll make sure you're the first to know what the editors' response is.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Mike McCarty 12-08-2002 12:34 PM

There now exists a wonderful book on portraiture. Its perspective is broad, from the amateur to the seasoned professional. It includes many fine examples of success and failure. It includes photographs, paintings in all media, as well as diagrams. There's comedy, anger and pathos (whatever that is).

This wonderful book is now contained within this Forum's data base, just itching to be hard bound.

Jean Kelly 12-09-2002 03:12 PM

Josh's new haircut
 
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All there but for the tweaking. Do I need to neutralize the background?

Jean

Jim Riley 12-10-2002 10:27 PM

Jean,

For your tweak list you might want to look at transitions between hair and background so that edges are lost and the hair does not look so much like a hard and flat shape. Do the same between face and hair as you can see in the photo at right center of forehead.

And make the eye brows wider and softer.

Jean Kelly 12-10-2002 11:12 PM

Hi Jim, thank you for your reply. I've looked at your watercolors numerous times and like the strength and assurance of your work. I'll try softening those areas up. In the meantime I've painted his right hand out again. I need a permanent posable kid on call. I've also softened the background and like it better. If I ever get the hand right I'll post again. Feeling frustrated.

Jean

Jean Kelly 12-13-2002 02:01 PM

Done but for the sig
 
It's time to send this one to his new home. His right hand never looked right to me until I changed it to an anatomically possible position. Funny how this works. Many thanks to all who helped me here. This has been an amazing learning experience. Thanks again Steven, Chris, and Jim.

And Mike, you are so right about the book here on this site!

Jean

Jean Kelly 12-13-2002 02:02 PM

Oops
 
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Forgot the image!

Steven Sweeney 12-13-2002 04:47 PM

Super call on that hand, Jean, as well as all the other ways you pushed that area -- and the whole piece -- to completion.

Now you're one of the chapters in that book! (Prepare for highlighting and for notes to be jotted in your margins.)

Cheers,
Steven


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