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-   -   Phony Tronie (http://portraitartistforum.com/showthread.php?t=1563)

John Zeissig 10-28-2002 02:15 AM

Phony Tronie
 
Hello, all.

Here's another oil painting that I started while I was working on my previous post, "Kim", and is still sitting around the house. Like the previous post, this one is part of my attempt to form a portfolio of "portraits". This one was started back in February and is unvarnished, so modifications will present no particular problems. It is 11" x 14" on a maple panel prepared with acrylic gesso. I'm posting a photo reference and a quick charcoal drawing that was done at about the time that I took the photo. The only gross distortions of which I am aware are the color of the lemons in the foreground and the whites of the eyes. The lemons are a much more saturated yellow, and the whites of the eyes are more subdued than what appears on my screen. I try to edit these things so they look right on screen; but, hey, we're not painting for the internet, so it's not worth it to spend too much effort getting the digital part perfect. Without further ado, here it is:

John Zeissig 10-28-2002 02:20 AM

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I hope!

John Zeissig 10-28-2002 02:25 AM

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Out of order, but:

John Zeissig 10-28-2002 03:58 PM

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Another try on the photo ::bewildere

Mike McCarty 10-28-2002 05:45 PM

John,

This hat seems to defy explanation (even in the photograph). I like the way you did it in the sketch but I think you tried to be to literal in the painting. There are things that we will accept in a photo but will not in a painting, even if we render them perfectly. I think I would simplify as you did in the drawing. BTW I love the drawing and would have loved to see the painting in this loose, suggested manner.

John Zeissig 10-28-2002 06:48 PM

Hat
 
Ha Ha, Hi Mike

Listen, that hat defies explanation even in real life. I've never received a satisfactory explanation of why we have it. But, I assure you, it exists. Even worse, it cost me more than 70 bucks, so you know it's for real!

The idea here was to do something like a 17th century Dutch "tronie". You know, where they get some girl up in "oriental" garb. I think Rembrandt did some of his self portraits in this fashion. Only in this case I reversed the East/West roles between the clothing and the subject.

The charcoal is OK, but everybody does those painterly "doe-eyed" girlie paintings. I wanted something a bit flintier; something like the look my wife just gave me when she read over my shoulder and saw your comment about the credibility of her hat. Thanks for the help, Mike. I won't have any trouble getting her to give me that look now! :)

Mike McCarty 10-29-2002 12:12 AM

John,

I didn't mean that I don't like the hat. I think it's wonderfully graphic and expressive. It was just the top part of the hat that looks like the light has caught it in an awkward way, too many planes of light. I was suggesting that you might simplifiy all those different planes on that top part of the hat the way you did in the drawing. Sorry I wasn't clear about that.

John Zeissig 10-29-2002 06:38 PM

That hat
 
Mike,

Of course you like the hat. I never dreamed that you didn't like it. It's just that the hat defies explanation. Lots of things that we like defy explanation, don't they? You and I understand these things, even if others might be inclined to misinterpret them. Not to worry!

But this hat does have some unusual properties. The actual crown, or top, of the hat is the upper of the two bright horizontal lines just above the brim of the hat. The confusing planes of light are masses of translucent fabric (tuille?) that are piled up behind the crown. This isn't so obvious in the jpeg or in the photo, for that matter, but it's pretty obvious in the actual painting. But you're right to point this out as a problem area.

In the photo you might barely be able to see that the overlapping layers of this fabric result in a moire` fringe pattern. I had no clue as to how to even begin to paint this effect, so I punted and just wound up with the confusing planes of light. I've been bothered by this ever since, but now that you've brought it up it's clear that something has to be done about it. I just thought of something that I might try, so we'll see what happens on that.

Another thing that occurs to me is that the edge of the brim, which is yet another translucent fabric, is allowing some of that tuille stuff to show through on the lighted side. Funny, I never noticed that before, either in the photos or in life. Maybe I should work on that area a little bit as well. That translucent band is what gives rise to the three value shadow effect that attracted me to this pose in the first place.

Finally, what do you think of the hat on the character in the painting in the background?

Mike McCarty 10-29-2002 06:54 PM

John,

I'm sorry I can't make out much of anything in the background painting. It's much to dark on my monitor. I can make out your name but that's about it.

John Zeissig 10-29-2002 07:24 PM

Mike,

Huh! If anything it looks brighter than normal on my screen. I'll post a detail when I get home tonight. The whole hat theme is continued in that background painting.

John Zeissig 10-30-2002 12:40 AM

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Mike

Here's the little guy in the background. If you can't identify this joker then either you flunk Art History 101, or I flunk the elementary painting skills test. But, really, it's about his hat. Kind of goofy, isn't it? I'm hoping this comes out about the same size on your screen that it is in the painting, 2 1/2" x 5" +-.

Cynthia Daniel 10-30-2002 02:55 AM

John,

It's not too dark on my monitor. I can see it fine.

Mike McCarty 10-30-2002 10:27 AM

John,

I just flunked. What I see here is just what I saw in the painting. If I strain I can barely make out a face on my left, I cannot find a hat; it's too dark. I usually don't have a problem. Maybe you can find another to comment.

Cynthia Daniel 10-30-2002 10:38 AM

Mike,

Have you tried adjusting the lightness/darkness on your monitor itself? If you go to one of Virgil Elliott's sites, there's a gray scale there and you should be able to see each of the gradations. http://virgilelliott.com

John Zeissig 10-30-2002 04:52 PM

Through a glass darkly
 
Hi Mike and Cynthia,

I could see this all right on my monitor last night, and it looks fairly good on my monitor here at my day job. Mike, maybe you should try removing your sunglasses.:) Seriously, the painting within the painting is pretty dark, both in my version and in the reproduction that I copied it from, but it's still readable on my equipment. It's a copy/adaptation of a portion of a 17th century Dutch old master painting, hence my joke about flunking Art History 101. I was hoping that someone would recognize it without too much prompting. Oh well, here are a couple more clues: Think Delft. Also the figure in question has been rumored to be the only extant self-portrait of the artist in question. Of course if you can't see it none of this will help.

Does anyone who can see it know where it comes from? Do I have to offer prize money?

Peter Jochems 10-30-2002 06:03 PM

I know who it is! ...But first I want to know the prize money, of course ;)


Peter

Mike McCarty 10-30-2002 06:05 PM

John,

After a monitor tweaking, I believe it is Vermeer. Pretty darn clever you are, nice job.

John Zeissig 10-30-2002 07:09 PM

The Bad Hatter
 
Peter,

I'm sure you knew the answer! Is this remarkable picture from the belfry in Delft yours?

http://essentialvermeer.20m.com/delf...eiuwe_kerk.htm

Nice going Mike. I'm glad you didn't hold out for the prize money too, or one of you guys would have wound up skinning me.

Yes, it's lifted from Vermeer's "Procuress".

When I was researching Vermeer last winter it struck me that most of his paintings containing hats kind of strained my credulity. Both the gentlemen in "Procuress" are pushing the envelope of belivability. For another exercise try to determine where the true top of the head is in "Girl With A Flute" and "Girl With The Red Hat". Little did I know that I was destined to have hat headaches of my own with this painting!

Peter Jochems 10-31-2002 07:40 AM

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Hi John,

In January 2002 I went to Delft to take the pictures. It took 5 or six photographs to compose this one. It is taken from the 'Nieuwe Kerk' (The church which is bathing in light, on the right, in Vermeer's View of Delft. The dutch royal family gets buried here) I placed some numbers on the picture:

1- It's a bit outside the picture, but about here stood Vermeer's studio where he painted most of his paintings.

2- This is where the Inn of his father stood 'Mechelen', Vermeer's lived here during his childhood.

3- Here Vermeer was buried, and still there is a little tomb, it's only a stone with inscription.

4- from this direction the 'View of Delft' was painted.

5- This is the town-hall of Delft.


Greetings,
Peter

Peter Jochems 10-31-2002 09:58 AM

I posted my other pictures of Delft here:

http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...&threadid=1598


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