Genesis paints
 

I am very interested in using Genesis in my underpainting, but also would like to use oil + medium for the upper layers. I searched the posts to see if it was reported that the varnish barrier works. Have you gotten good results from this?

Also, regarding the drying gun, I have double ovens, so they are both smallish. I'm afraid nothing bigger than 20" x 16" will fit in it. The drying gun would be the best alternative for me as I have no space for the Genesis oven. Has anyone tried the gun?

I am very anxious to try Genesis, any feedback would be appreciated.

JW's "Right-Step Matte Varnish" works. Use two thin coats as a barrier before adding traditional oils on top.

JW's "Right-Step Gloss Varnish" does NOT work. Do NOT use it.

As to the heat guns: I don't like them very much as it takes too long. Genesis suggests that a cheapo quartz heater works too (and you don't have to stand there and hold it).

Also, the drying oven is not that expensive and if you're going to be using Genesis, it might be worthwhile to purchase one. "Art Supplies Wholesale" in Beverly, MA has good Genesis paint prices. See: http://www.allartsupplies.com/

Karin,

Thanks for the link! There are a lot of good products there, however, I found nothing for Genesis paints or the oven. Also, where do you buy the JW's "Right-Step Matte Varnish?" I don't see it im my catalogs. Thanks for your help.

Sandy

Oops...try this for Genesis: http://store.yahoo.com/artsupplyware...fsetwheat.html Unfortunately, they don't list an oven, but the price for the complete set of paints is the lowest that I've seen anywhere.

JW's "Right-Step Matte Varnish" is usually found through craft supply stores.

Err on the side of caution
 

Sandy,

If I were you, I would be very careful about putting traditional oil paint over a plastic foundation. The layers in a painting need to meld together into a unified paint film. Thus, the fat over lean rule.

One of our selling points as portrait artist is the archival integrity of the works we create. How can you guarantee that which is essentially an experiment?

You also made a comment about the lack of Genesis paints' fumes. Just because you can't smell something it doesn't mean it's not there. Fact: plastic, whether wet or cured, releases formaldehyde. This includes all forms of acrylic paint. To then expose the paint to high concentrations of heat would seem to exacerbate the release of these fumes.

Marvin, a while ago I wrote to Genesis requesting some technical information on their pigments and here is their reply:

What I was thinking
 

Karin,

I appreciate the enthusiasm about the materials and techniques you use and the unselfishness with which you share your information. I think in that respect were are very similar. As a teacher I always precede my information with the caveat

Karin,

I wish I had read your post more carefully! I went charging over to Pearl looking for J.W.'s products and, alas, found none.

"Craft" store was the operative word. For anyone interested in J. W.'s products and how they work see http://www.jwetc.com/products/rs.html

Marvin, I shared you concern about Genesis and its archival integrity. For my application, however, I believe it will suffice. I plan to print several paintings (where I will keep the originals). Since I am on the downside of 40 now, I am hopeful that the paintings will outlast me. I do not hope to become a famous artist (living or otherwise) and have no heirs to inherit my collection. My paintings will probably end up in the Goodwill bin :) and I just might get a chuckle from upstairs when (upon purchasing my pictures for $5.00 each) the bemused Goodwill shopper sighs, "If only she had used archival paints..."

[QUOTE]I don

George Debikey is the VP Director of Technical Services at American Art Clay Co. Inc. and they manufacture and sell Genesis paints.

You can call him at 800-925-5195, ext. 328

George is also the R & D chemist involved with Genesis and, I believe, really does know what he is talking about. Genesis is too big and has too good a reputation to make false claims just to sell a product.

Patt: As I said, that letter was old...and yes, you are right, it did address another issue - namely pigments. I just figured that some of us can benefit from ALL the technical information available on this unusual product. I posted George's letter just in case it occurred to anyone to ask about the pigments, the effect that heat has on them and their archival qualities.

As far as I know, Genesis is SAFE enough for pregnant women and people with severe allergies to use. Their website has information on this, and you can always call George's toll free number and inquire.

I wrote to George Debikey about this thread and hopefully he will address Marvin's particular concerns.

Longevity
 

The Bible states that a man's lifetime is 120 years. So, Sandi, you're just a pup. Using toxic materials will generally shorten your potential. Seriously, I feel that it is my obligation to create a painting which will survive for generations. This is, I believe, a strong selling point of why commission a portrait over a photo (definitely not the most important, but strong, nonetheless). I don't want to be like the used car salesman who keeps his fingers crossed that the car he just sold can make it out of the lot in one piece. The people in the Goodwill bins deserve the most for their money.

It is certainly not my aim to merely get my paintings out the door (with no questions about their longevity). The purpose I have is for paintings that will be made for reproducing prints, not commissions. The originals will remain with me (until the good Lord calls me home).

I appreciate what you are saying but I have a hard time believing the fumes generated by "cooking" a painting for a few minutes can be so harmful. I truly believe that with all of the noxious things in our world, something else will get me before my paintings do.

Here is a letter I just recieved that addresses the issue of toxicity.

[quote]Dear Karin,

Thanks for passing on to me copy of the discussion on Genesis Colors. I
appreciate Mr. Mattelson's concerns and I will try to clarify these
issues.

The first thing I would like to say is that, Yes, I am very interested
in seeing Genesis used extensively because it is an excellent and safe
product.

Genesis Colors have the unique quality for oil painters who
want to paint fast and finish the painting in one day while the idea and
the feeling of the painting is fresh in their mind, or those who want to
work slow and take months to finish a painting. It is also the medium
for those who work in acrylics to avoid toxicity, but have to deal with
the fast drying of the paint, they too can paint at their own pace and
achieve the results they want.

Now, I would like to address the toxicity of Genesis Colors.
American Art Clay Company was established in 1919. Permoplast, a widely
used non-hardening, non-toxic clay was the first product marketed. From
that initial item AMACO expended to produce a variety of children and
school-supply materials and eventually went into the manufacturing of
Ceramic, Art and Craft materials.

Having to deal with materials that are used not only by adults but also
by children, toxicity was Amaco's first concern right from the
beginning. Consequently AMACO is a member of the ART and Creative
Materials Institute and has been since its foundation. All products
manufactured by Amaco, and their usage are reviewed by ACMI's
independent toxicologist, who establishes their labeling. Some products
require a warning label because of certain ingredient that they may
contain, others like Genesis Colors have been approved to be Non-Toxic.

Toxic fumes may be emitted from Genesis Artist Colors if they are
overheated to the point of decomposition. However at the 265

Karin,

I didn't want to change the content of the letter as you posted it, but I suspect this is the web site to which they refer:

http://www.acminet.org

Karin,

Thank you for writing to Mr. Debikey and posting his reply here. I am quite satisfied with his explanation and eagerly await the delivery of my Genesis paints.

p. s. For anyone else interested in J.W. Etc. Right-step matte varnish, a good source is at http://www.safenontoxic.com/buy.html. Apparently only a few craft stores carry it, none in my area.

Not Satisfied Yet
 

By what criteria does ACMI's independent toxicologist at Duke University in the Division of Occupational and Environmental Medicine judge whether something is toxic or not? Science is constantly changing criteria based on new data. Who funds this research?

X-rays were once considered safe. When I was growing up, my neighborhood shoe store had an x-ray machine to check how the shoes fit. Complex carbohydrates were once considered harmful for sufferers of diabetes. Now whole grains are highly recommended.

We have the right to purchase whatever products we choose. I for one choose a heaping serving of cynicism.

Marvin, this is some more information from George Debikey...(thank heavens that he is willing to share his time and attention with us). I agree that our health is really our responsibility and it is up to us to investigate the materials we use and create a safe workplace.

[quote]Dear Karin,

I just thought that I did not address Mr. Mattelson's concerns about the
archival quality of Genesis artist Colors, in my Email yesterday.

However I have already covered the issue about color lightfastness in my
earlier Email to you. Now, I just want to add that Genesis Colors will
not decompose or deteriorate unless they burn or are exposed to
temperatures above 450

Paints and toxic fumes
 

Well, I know what I am dealing with when I use traditional oils. History shows me that plenty of artists that used traditional oil paints, many still using lead white, lived to a nice old age. I myself do not expect to live forever and I do not see any higher early death rate among artists and illustrators vs. any other profession. And there is no question as to the longevity of their work. As for the toxins in oil paints and solvents, if you are aware, and barring any allergic reaction, you can avoid any complications due to exposure. Don't eat near or while painting, keep your studio space well ventilated and be careful how you dispose of your solvents. And you should be fine.

As for the longevity of acrylic resin paints vs. oils, I see no reason they won't last as long or longer then some of the paintings of the early masters. Many paintings of early classical painters of the past show many signs of deterioration like cracks, chipping and yellowing, as well as colors that have darkened so much that only a slight hint of the original beauty shows today. And, Marvin, is Acrylic Gesso not a plastic base? I have used it exclusively and have never had a painting crack or show any signs of deterioration because of it. That said, of course none of my work has been around that long to show what will happen in, say, 50-100 years, but if my work holds up at least better then Maxfield Parish's work I will be happy. :)

Having been in the art business for awhile, I know of several artists who have become deathly ill or have actually died from the toxins they encountered in their work.

It is best to avoid toxic materials - no matter how "good" you feel using them. I think that it is foolish to wait for a sub-clinical condition to become a full-blown allergic reaction.

Better to err on the side of caution, life is fragile...and precious.

As someone who is suffering from erythena nomosis (question spelling?) since April, I have been limited to using only my colored pencils, watercolors and gouache for my paintings. Why? Because the dermatologist has banned me from oil painting. EN is an inflammation of the bottom layer of the epidermis. I have it in my lower left leg. It can be caused by a variety of things, but with me it was the toxins in oil paints and accessories. I stopped using them and voila, the large lumps in my leg started shrinking. It will take up to eight months for them to completely go away. Such a condition is not life threatening, but it is painful like a bad bruise. Why am I writing all of this? Because the dermatologist made the point to me that the "old masters" may have had such a condition and did not know what it was. I am not saying everyone will get this condition, but I did and I sure do wish I hadn't.

My husband is a chemical engineer and has worked contract for almost every plant in this country and beyond. The levels of fumes that are in the air while using oil painting materials would cause immediate shut down in the majority of those plants (so would the fumes from pumping gas in your car by the way). You may use these things and nothing may ever happen to you, but such was not the case with me.

Enter Genesis paints. I can't wait to try them. I love my colored pencils and will continue to use them. Even with some of the prejudice (not on this Forum) against this medium being a legitimate art. The flexibility of these paints sounds like what I have been waiting on. With colored pencils, if one of my children (5 and 3) gets sick, or my husband has a last minute sales trip, etc., I can set them down and pick them up two days later. Is such the case with Genesis? I hope so. I sure do want to oil paint again.

They may find tomorrow that Genesis paints have some deadly side effect, but until then I am watching daily for the UPS truck. I know what the other did to me.

Just my story,
Rebecca

Yup. You can let 'em sit for a year and they won't dry until you cook 'em! The very best part is that you don't even have to clean your brushes if you don't want to. BTW, I really like the Genesis brand brushes for these paints...they have just the right "snap."

Rebecca,

I think it's unfortunate of what has happened to you. Chemicals affect people in so many ways depending on our own individual tolerance and our own body chemistry. You know that lobster is a delicacy for most people, but my brother would drop dead if he ate one, because he is terribly allergic to it. I met in Texas a former painter who used to work as a chemist for Grumbacher and who had developed a blood disease from exposure to toxic pigments. In my case, I lived in polluted Chicago for many years without any health problems but since I moved to Alabama less than 2 yeras ago, I have developed a respiratory allergy to the pollen of some beautiful trees that grow in this State. I have always used rectified turpertine for painting because I think it's the best thinner, but now the fumes irritate my lungs so much, that I have to interrupt my painting constantly because of the cough. I'm not saying that turpentine caused my allergy, but certainly aggravates it. On the positive side I must admit that we are very fortunate nowdays because we have so many choices of substitutes that were unknown to the Old Masters. Painting, like any other occupation has its inner risks and benefits.

Karin,

I respect your decision and I won't argue the effects of solvents and toxic pigments. I am well aware of the possible risks. And although I am willing to live with them I certainly don't mean to try to tell anyone else what is best for them.

I really do feel, though, that it is a kind of random event as to who will get sick and who will not. I look and see that Norman Rockwell lived well into his 90s. Whereas my niece, who had little or no exposure to toxins of any kind, was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer at the age of only 9 years. But that is just my view of the world. I try and not worry about things much; you roll your dice and get what you get.

As for the Genesis paints, I feel that your paintings will be just fine. Although these newer materials may or may not turn out to contain toxins of their own, I would not worry about their longevity. Acrylic paints, as well as acrylic resin-based paints like the Genesis paints, may not have years of history to prove it yet, but by their chemistry alone they should tend to be more stable and hold up better than traditional oil paints. In fact, the only reasons traditional oil paintings last as long as they do is because we have learned over many years of use the proper way to apply them, and what will and won't stand up over time.

Who knows, time may show that not only will you outlive us painters using traditional oil paints due to our exposure to possible health risks, but your work may outlive ours as well due to the advancements in modern paint technology. :)

Another route
 

I am not a doctor nor a scientist, but I have the expertise of my own personal experiences to draw upon. Growing up, I had severe allergies and during hay fever season I used to walk around with a box of tissues under my arm blowing my nose constantly. I was tested by an allergist and it was determined I was sensitive to the dust and pollen which, in turn, caused me to sneeze and be congested. I received allergy shots which were some help, but not much.

When I came to NY I met someone who was very food conscious and pointed out the perils of processed foods, meat and dairy products. I eliminated these from my diet and within weeks my allergies disappeared. Four years later because of my life

Funny you should mention it Marvin, I got soooo sick this past year from using Liquin and other aromatic toxins, that I now follow a Macrobiotic diet. As long as I stay on it, I am not bothered much by allergic reactions to nearly everything...but I am verrry careful about what I use in the studio.

Michael, I have used a lot of toxic materials over the years and had absolutely no adverse reaction to them...until I did. When I hurt bad enough, I became willing to make some radical changes.

I don't waste much time worrying about toxins. I simply eliminate those that I can from my life. I am glad that you are healthy. And with such a strong constitution, I am confident that you will stay that way.

Hello to all.

One of the members of my household is an asthmatic and any solvent would set her attacks off. From the time I was 14 years old, she would sit with me whilst I painted. With age, she developed asthma.

So I used the illness as an opportunity to learn to paint without solvents and pigments with no pronounced drying properties. Brushes are wiped clean on paper rags, washed in sunflower oil or soap if I am done for the week. The studio is more or less scent free.

Today, everything is as it was when I was 14. Life is good.

Yin and yang food
 

Karin,

I've been on the macrobiotic diet on and off since 1971 through 1985 and continuously since then. I experience great focus and sensitivity as a result. Macrobiotic Portrait Artists of the Universal Church of Academic Realism. Wanna join?

It would seem that life is a bit of a genetic crap shoot. My grandmother, Lyda B. Davis, painted most of her adult life. She used linseed oil and turp. She constantly smoked Winston cigarettes as she painted. I can remember as a little whipper sitting and watching her paint. She died at the age of 92. Personally, I have never passed up the opportunity to consume a good chili dog (not to mention all that Pepsi), I have always been healthy as a horse.

With everyone's indulgence I am going to now post one of my grandmothers paintings. She would like it that she has now passed her influence through a part of three centuries.

OK Marvin, I qualify. Where do I sign up?

Mike, I think your grandmother's work is really beautiful. Along with her talent, you must have inherited her strong constitution...so many of our fragile and aging bodies can't withstand so much sustained abuse.

What a beautiful painting, Mike. Your grandmother was a real master. Did she sell her work or simply paint to enjoy it? And do you know when this was done? Such a timeless subject; it could have taken place any time in the last hundred years (I'm assuming that the breed of dog isn't very old, though.)

I agree with Marvin and Karin about diet and environment. We garden organically and used to raise our own lamb and produce milk from our goats. The whole family also went on the Feingold diet when our son was diagnosed with ADHD. I have often thought that the current prevalence of such formerly unusual neurological disorders has a lot to do with the environmental assaults we're subject to on a daily basis. There are so many substances added to our air, water and food inadvertently, and then there are such things as antibiotics, growth hormones, chlorine and fluoride added deliberately. We don't eat macrobiotically or even totally organically because it's too difficult, but we do try to avoid whatever toxins we can. And back to another thread, I also used to do a lot of acupressure and meridian clearing, although I haven't for a long time. I feel strongly that there's a lot more to the way we fit into and interact with our environment, to say nothing of the universe, than mainstream science is willing to acknowledge.

This is a long way from Genesis oils. I've seen the ads and figured that it had to be a gimmick, so this is very interesting.

I know this is off the subject and I'm sorry. The above painting is typical of her work. It is marked 1943 and is the only one that I have of the hundreds that she produced. My mother's mother, during the years that I knew her, painted to make her rent. She would sell a painting like the one above (18" x 24") for as little as $25, which was her monthly rent in the government subsidized old age home. She was left at a convent as a teenager in San Antonio and taught to paint by the nuns. She let us sit by her knee and watch her paint; I can still remember the smell. I'm sure that it is her influence which has placed me where I am today. I could go on but mercifully I won't.

Mike, I too admire your grandmother's work. It reminds me a bit of one of my favorites, John Martin Tracy, a wonderful North American painter of sporting scenes. Here's a link for John Martin Tracy's beautiful work.

Leslie, The English Setter is a very "old" breed indeed. The first writings of the breed were done in about 1564.

Sandy, I'll have to share that with friends who have English setters. I should have known anyway because we had Irish setters at one time, and I remember reading about the history of that breed.