please forgive
 

Thank you for putting me in my place. I had no right to offer my thoughts when I haven't read every post. I am sorry for my suggestion.
morgan

Morgan,

Putting you in your place? Goodness what did I say?? I'll have to go back and read. That wasn't my intention.

Additional Thoughts on the fee structure.
 

If one were to purchase a book on painting, it would cost from $15 to maybe $60. The average being around $35.

If one were to purchase a movie on painting. It would cost some where in the order of $40 to $125. With the average being around $75.

If one were to purchase a 37 ml tube of oil paint it would cost from $3.00 to maybe $25.00. With the average being around $6.00.

If one were to purchase a Hog Bristle Brush it would cost from $1.00 to maybe $15.00. With the average being around $4.00.

So this is my point...

If one were to charge to visit and be a member of a for fee web site, one could be expected to pay from $10 to $100 a year. With the average being around $45.

So, I would suspect that perhaps $45 would be a number to charge for the maintenance of this site.

I, myself, would pay $45 to be a member of this site, but only if it could offer slightly greater resource access in some (as yet undefined way). I am not complaining. I just think that an increase in the fee structure from $0 to $45 is too dramatic initially.

Summary:

I would like to propose a $45/year fee structure. It would include some kind of product or magazine discount and artist registry. My overall feeling is that $45 is really too steep a change from free to paying.

Morgan,

I just read back over my post and nothing was intended to "put you in your place." So sorry if it sounded like that. Because of the heavy traffic to this thead today, I'm whipping out answers quickly.

Your participation in this Forum is highly valued by all and we'd be most honored any time you can spare us some time.

Robert,

Thank you for your input and ideas. I have no on-hand discounts to offer. That would require getting on the phone and trying to sell the idea to one or more companies. Could be a lot of time just to accomplish that one thing.

I agree that 0-45 is too steep.

Hi Cynthia,

Well, it has been interesting to read these recent posts.

I'm one of the ones arguing for advertising. You already have ads on the left hand side of the monitor, every time we post, read posts or just log in. I would dearly love to click on an ad for Morgan's video, or for New Traditions art panels, or to check out whatever any working artist or artisan wants to sell me. (I already own most of what is currently on the left side of the page, by the way.) Surely, this space is valuable to people who want to sell to artists.

Your Dick Blick ad is not in-your-face enough to count as a representative sample of ad use here.

If you gave professional artists a financial incentive to support the Forum - if they could make some money here to help them survive - you would get more input from them.

Here's what I see happening with posting: if new people don't get a good reaction to their work, they stop coming back. No artist likes indifference.

Cynthia, I hope it goes without saying that this site has been incredibly useful and helpful to me. It is worth a lot of money to me. I just worry that we will lose some people if we start to charge.

I enjoy so many of you! You have no idea.

A newbie speaks
 

I just joined 3 days ago and, at first, this thread made me feel very uneasy. I worried that this wonderful meeting place would cease to be. But it also made me realize just how much I VALUE this site.

When I stumbled across this site 6 months ago I couldn't believe how deep it was, what an incredible resource it was. And I was struck by how well it was organized, and especially impressed by the level of discourse: courteous, dignified, positive, constructive, informed, friendly, generous - I could go on and on. This site has been critical in helping me to focus my energies, my attention, my aspiration toward the goal of being the best portrait artist I can be.

And it's not the (plentiful) knowledge that's offered here that is key for me. It's the people. The moderators are all wonderful and Cynthia, you are simply exceptional. That's why the site is so good. I feel so encouraged and I've only just begun participating. (Cynthia, I can't believe you've been doing this much work without remuneration.)

So after journeying through this long thread I realize that most members value this site as well. I see roughly 65% of members would be will ing to contribute, and some others (students for example) would like to but can't. I am no longer worried.

I think a one-time startup fee, or an annual membership fee is entirely justified (I don't like the idea of paying for each post or reply since I'm not very good with money and might end up spending thousands and not know it.)

If I have to I will cancel my public radio contributions to pay for this. I just won't listen to NPR anymore :o

IT'S WORTH IT!

-David Draime

This forum has been an invaluable resource to me. I voted my preferred fee amount, but I would beg, borrow, or steal just to keep access to the archives of this forum, even if I never posted again! I usually check in daily, although I don't always log in, just to see what is going on. I am usually treated to some kind of information that interests me, I get to view some of the greatest "unveilings" ever, and I get to laugh at the humor, and cheer for those I see making progress. Definitely worth it Cynthia!

When I put those there, I never particularly thought of them as advertising. I put them there as things that would be helpful to the artist.

If you're talking about making an advertising pitch to some large or medium company, I really don't have the time or heart to educate myself on putting together a marketing program and then trying to pitch it to them.

However, something like Morgan's videos would be perfect, of course. And, along those lines, then I should start charging Peggy for her videos that are there. Chris' book is a Amazon affiliate link as are the other books.

But, that still doesn't address the other reasons for charging a fee.

Frankly, I'm not all that familiar with what the artists would even like to see offered.

So, you consider the left side to be in-your-face? At 800x600 resolution, it's just a narrow space - not very big.

Cynthia,

I have not painted a portrait since maybe early December, but I still log on at least every other day to see what's cooking and get inspired. I paint more landscapes and still lifes than I do portraits, so I wish there was a site as full of quality or as easy to read as this one dealing with those subjects - BUT a lot of what I have learned here applies to those as well.

I would pay a fee. I'd prefer a one-time fee and I'd prefer it to be small. That is not to say it isn't worth more becasue it is. I'd most-likely pay it if it were larger. I am afraid it would change the dynamics though. I'd be more likely to whine if I were paying and no one responded to something. When we pay we feel like customers - when we are participating it is all appreciated.

The information here has been invaluable to me. It was a shock to find out what bad photos I was painting from. I worked only on my own talent and intuition and this place has been wonderful.

I have learned much - where else could I communicate with such well-known artists. I recall when I first was on telling my husband, "Hey - I have her book and she just critiqued my work."

This is not the only forum I go to - but for now it is the only one I would pay for.

I do wish we had more big-names here - with more range of styles. Certianly still in the realistic venue, but just more variety. I know there isn't anyway to control that.

I have one suggestion - what about all the workshops that are advertised? This forum is used a lot to promote those. What about a small fee (perhaps not required, but by trust) from the students the bigger names get from this place?