I may be on the low end of the totem pole, but I have to put my thought in. As a college student, making next to nothing, trying to find the time to do my own art, and having little grocery money, and most of all not being able to buy art supplies... I just can't really afford it. I could see having a one time fee. A lot of the people on this forum seem to be doing well in the field of art. I on the otherhand barely have a name in the art world and from what I have learned so far on this site has been great. But the fact that their are many college students such as myself hoping to possibly join, the fee cuts them away in a heartbeat.

The 30 day trial membership isn't a bad idea, but not many people can gain much in 30 days. Because there just isn't enough members that actually critique works or post much at all. I have been a member for a little more than a month, and I have posted a few of my works. The only one who has really said anything about my stuff is Steven. And I thank you greatly for that Steven.

In my opinion, their just isn't enough new posts or posting members to really charge a fee. As to what Peter Jochems has said about a Paypal donation, that is an excellent idea. And from what I have heard, you could probably make a good amount with that.

From my stand-point, I just have no way of affording the fee at this time.

Thanks,

Chase,

As mentioned before, students and hardship situations will be given special consideration.

There's no reason the trial period has to be 30 days. It coudl be 60 days.

It's interesting the viewpoint of value. I don't know about anyone else, but if I go out to eat, it's usually at least $15.

Well, now that I've voted, I feel compelled to post - albeit it is for the first time. I guess I'm one of those characters who wreck the curve by joining and not posting.

But - - I have reason to be reluctant. After my request to join the forum, I was accepted shortly thereafter. Of course, I was obliged to read the guidelines. After doing so, I decided to post right away would be inappropriate. As a beginning portrait artist with an extensive portfolio of nudes, landscapes and illustrations - I have little to share in terms of experience or imagery. My forethought was that I might instead continue to read the forum, gaining valuable insights from those who DO have something to contribute. Then, perhaps, when I finish the commission upon which I am currently working, I too, will have something to share. The "attitude" (for lack of a better word) of this forum comes across as such that anything I might try and contribute right now would be regarded as superfluous, if not outside the guidelines. Little did I know that my hesitation to jump right in would be seen as irksome. I had honestly thought the converse was true.

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem with upholding these standards, and I applaud Cynthia for setting the bar at a height that weeds out the chaff. However, were I paying for rights to post within this forum, I would hope that some of the tight parameters might be loosened a tad.

Jimmy Arroyo stated in an earlier post that he considers his figurative (nude) work to be portraits of a kind. I share that same attitude. As you probably know, the Portrait Artist Forum has the market cornered in terms of quality of work and quality of critique (due, of course to the quality of its membership). However - it is limited solely to portraiture. Should this become a paysite, might I suggest broadening the subject matter? Could this be done while maintaining the same degree of quality? I imagine it could.

The Wetcanvas site has been brought up in this thread. Regardless of how they recoup expenses, it does not hold a candle to what happens here. Yet, I have posted work there. Why? As I've said, there is, apparently, no place for works other than strictly portraiture here. There IS no other forum like this one in terms of quality representational realism - but it revolves aroundonly one subject ! I find that too limiting to pay for it.

Cynthia, please post a mailing address!
 

I have long been of the opinion that portraiture is the highest of the fine art forms. I believe a portrait artist is absolutely unlimited in what he or she can paint.

Further, only a relative few people have enough talent to do it well; fewer yet have the drive it takes. Still, there are many of us who want to do portraiture, until we discover how brutally difficult it is. That accounts for many of the people who sign up, but don't participate. With the best of intentions, they think, I'll post something for critique when I get good enough. Of course, most of the time, this never happens.

Some of us simply discover the market for formal portriature is small. As in my case, I have gone where my success has led: into illustration, where I can still paint people and the lessons learned on this forum still help me. But I don't post any of that stuff because this is a portraiture forum, and I want to honor Cynthia's wishes to keep it focused.

That speaks for my lack of participation.

But what I have learned here is invaluable. I could not have picked it up by reading a book because the book cannot look at my work and say "these shadows should be cool," or "that jaw is sticking out the side of that face," as Steven has done, phrased much more graciously than that, of course.

Still, I'm the typical starving artist. What I earn from my art would make a church mouse feel wealthy by comparison. So I don't think I could pay a subscriber fee.

But I would be willing to send a check right now to show my support and appreciation for the help and encouragement I have recieved in the past. It won't be very much, but it will be from the heart.

Cynthia, why don't you post a mailing address? Maybe there are others like me?


A sad truth:
People will rarely pay for something if they can get it for free. And if they can get a cheap junky version for free, they usually won't pay for a good version. It's sad, but we are a race of cheapskates. It is inherent in our psyche (generally speaking.) I myself am not exempt - nowhere is the phenomenon is more obvious to me. Clearly, there are exceptions, cases in point being those who contribute advice on this forum and freely share of their time and hard-won knowledge.

It's clear that a fee will diminish the volume of paprticipation. But maybe not the quality if, as Cynthia suggests, the expert contributors are not required to pay. Maybe the quality would even rise dramatically with less time being spent educating beginners on basic composition, how a brush should be held, how to post, etc.

So, if the forum continues to be available I will continue to access it as needed.

Will

There are many ways to participate in the forum other than posting your work for critique. If someone doesn't feel ready to do that there are still a lot of other things they may want to ask about or suggestions they might have.

I have learned many valuable things from artists on this site who would call themselves beginners, when they have made suggestions about my own work in the critique section, or when they have mentioned an experience they had using Liquin, or a website they've found for inexpensive art supplies etc. Artists of all levels can ask questions about materials, photography, marketing and so on. I learn from those questions and the answers that others give, too.

The subjects of nudes has come up twice now. I'd have to discuss that with the board. Yes, we do have a very narrow focus because the Forum is meant to reflect the nature of the main site. And, the main site does not allow nudes.

Regarding activity, I was gone for about six weeks Nov-Dec and didn't both to delete email notifications I received of all the psots. There were over 1,000 in that six week period. I realize compared to big forums, that's probably not much. But, considering our small membership and narrow focus, I think that's quite a bit.

Fees
 

TROUBLE SHOOTING A BUSINESS PLAN:

Rule #1. If it isn't self-sustaining, find out why.

Rule #2. If you provide a service or product that is deemed valuable, then expect to be paid for it.

I assumed (Oh,Oh), this site was at least self-sustaining. Cynthia seems like a nice lady. She should make a profit if there is a service that is valuable to others. Will people deem the service worthy of payment? I can't even imagine the time and energy it takes to run this site! You don't have to convince me that it takes both,(at huge amounts of each). One thing I think you could count on, is just who REALLY values this place!

On a different note, The government developed the internet as a way to communicate between defense systems. I'm sure it was a joke when Al Gore's name was mentioned.

Once again, this place is pretty special.

Changed my mind
 

Oops, I originally selected that I would not be willing to pay a fee, but on second thought, I would be willing to pay to be a member of this forum. I think paid membership would encourage me to use the forum more frequently and effectively. (I always tell my kids "You get out of things what you put into them.")

So, go ahead and take one vote out of not willing to pay and stick it in any of the pay amount boxes (I don't see a big difference between $15 and $40 per year).

GUILTY AS CHARGED!

Janel