Linda- I'll start it, I have a house full.

Jean

To say I nearly fell off my chair laughing is an understatement!

I just read through this thread for the first time. Very interesting, and I'm looking forward to trying out the non-cadmium palette on my next piece.

One thing I didn't understand, when Marvin speaks of using neutral grays to reduce the chromatic intensity (rather than complements), what paint color is that exactly? I've seen a line of neutral grays in acrylic, but I don't recall seeing any in oil. Or is he just speaking of mixing black and white to make the various values of gray?

(Taking his workshop is on my list of things to do as soon as possible).

thanks in advance for the info.

Ken--

Neutral gray in the generic sense, not a specific brand or color out of the tube. It's a mixing discussion, not a purchasing one.

You can gray down colors essentially two ways--mix them with their complement or mix them with gray. The gray can be mixed with black and white or any of a thousand other combinations of colors. A black and white mix will yield a rather cool gray, black and white being more or less both cool colors. On the other hand, you might want to mix a more warmish neutral gray into whatever color you're trying to gray down. Experimentation yields knowledge.

It's just that mixing a color with its complement will generally gray it down faster, and may yield a more sumptuous result.

I won't speak for Marvin, but when I want to gray down a color, I just look for a neutral gray that's somewhere on the palette already, with a warm or cool cast that I want, and grab some of that. Or I use the complement, as described above. In the case of Marvin's specific palette, he has a row of neutral grays already mixed in each of the ten values on his scale, made from raw umber, black and white. Obviously, I'm a lot sloppier and less disciplined.

If the value of the gray or complement being added is the same value as the color you're trying to neutralize, the value won't shift--an important idea for us tonalists.

Marvin, correct any of this you wish. Good to have seen you the other week.

Best--TE

Hi Ken.

I am not Marvin, but here is my perception of the theme.

When painting portraits you work with very limited colors in the flesh tones. Instead of mixing Cadmium Yellow, Cadmium Red, Viridian and White, you simply use Venetian Red and Flake White. It is less hazardous, and therefore easier.

The Cadmiums are so strong that you will never need a color that strong. The earth colors are closer to what you actually need. That

Also, this for Long John Brandon--

Maybe I could paint with a parrot on my shoulder, but doesn't the eye patch kill your ability to discern perspective?

Just wondering--TE

Grays
 

I use both Tom and Marvin's method.

I premix two or three neutrals using a string of five values using black and white; raw umber and white, and a curious greenish/yellowish gray from raw sienna, black and white. I do this most of the time.

However, as Tom points out, eventually, my palette is full of the most curious puddles of gray and I often fetch some neutral color from one of these.

Sometimes, the random little piles of neutral colors seem to work best because they are already composed of colors I've applied to the portrait somewhere, and it seems to give a sort of unity to the work.

Both the "Tom" and "Marvin" method work well for me.

By the way, Marvin, this whole discussion has led me to use less and less cadmiums, and now, my palette much quieter, and I seem to be doing better. Thanks for kicking me off the cadmium pile.

Peter.

Yes both are toxic. Flake white contains lead which can only be harmful if ingested or inhaled as dust. Wash hands before eating and don't sand the painting.

Turpentine can be absorbed through the skin and the fumes are very noxious.

Intelligent use of materials is the key.

Sharon,

I'm baaaaaaack!!! The workshop was great. So many talented people.

Richard,

The majority of the greatest paintings ever created used no cadmiums. I detect a theme here. Using cadmiums in flesh is like learning to parallel park in a Boeing 747.

Joan,

I have created a specific arrangement of colors on my palette based on Paxton's colors. This includes a string of neutral grays which I premix and tube.

Ken,

My neutral grays are based on 9 equal steps between the extremes of black and white paint. Other brands that manufacture neutral grays use theoretical black and white points. The values are threrfore skewed.

Speaking of Equal Steps of Gray!
 

Marvin,

I went to the extreme last year and premixed and tubed 50, yes I said 50 equal steps of neutral gray! This set me back several hundred dollars in materials expenses. I used Old Holland Ivory Black and Titanium White, because Old Holland happens to make a very pure Titanium White that isn't cut with Zinc or anything else. These particular black and whites are of roughly equal tinting strength, which made the formulations simpler. I gave these grays graded appellations of 5, 10, 15, 20, etc., to 250. 0 is pure black and 255 is pure white, which makes a total of 52 equal steps. You may notice that these numbers relate to the standard RGB Grayscale in Photoshop. That was my idea, to directly be able to translate any given grayscale value in Photoshop into paint values on the canvas. This works very reliably, but in practice it is just about as good to eyeball in the approximate values.

Regards,

Garth

Garth, how do you measure on the photo reference? Do you use the Photoshop?

This should be a separate topic about " How to measure values"

Allan