Enzie, you wrote: The approval process was only implemented a few months ago.

Marvin wrote, I recall hearing a writer lecturing on his craft. He used the following as his motto for students of writing. It applies well to anything, but is very apt for artists. He said,

talent + industry = a king
no talent + industry = a prince
talent + no industry = a pauper

In my own teaching I have seen marginally talented students work hard to overcome their natural shortcomings. They may never become the artists who define their generation, but they are producing significant work. I have also seen very talented students content to coast on their natural abilities. More often than not, they eventually gave up and went to other endeavors. Like anything else of value, excellence in art requires a great deal of work.

I haven't posted here for some time - who was alluded to in an earlier post in this thread as being from West Texas? Maybe we're neighbors.

Kirk

Nice color
 

Cathy, I was just looking at your website. Nice color and brushwork! Morgan (that's his first name) too, was an illustrator. Both guys had lots of experience painting lots of things and their work is more expressive and loose than the other two that Beth posted. Kind of interesting. I guess experience is like knowledge - it won't lessen your work.

Michael, I love 'ya but I've got to disagree. I believe that most of what is identified as God-given talent is, at most, just a pre-disposition to look at things and try your hand, or some small grain of eye/hand coordination. Two percent of artistic achievement, maybe.

There's a kid across the street who's a pretty good basketball player. He's crashing the backboard every day, rain or shine, for hours--sometimes well after dark. If he drew and painted as much, he'd put us all to shame.

Finally, there's just no substitute for hard effort--the other 98 percent. It's still fun, but it's hard.

Got to agree with Tom.

Talent is the fuel that keeps the fires of discipline burning and makes you willing to do the hard work.

I'm with Tom on the 2% notion. Michael Jordan has missed more than 13,000 free throws.

It's all about refusing to accept failures, while being willing to undertake thousands of them, and gladly.

Schmid
 

King Richard said it nicely in Alla Prima: "Talent is something people assign to artists only after they exhibit ability," or something close to that.

I've seen several artists that had no ability slowly hammer away at painting like Bill Murray in Ground Hog's Day (at the piano) until they become skilled.

Interesting conversation in this "Critique/anger" thread.

I don't know. Everyone has the stuff they have to work with. Talent, drive, money, circumstance.... I've had my fill of guys telling me that I should wait until my kids are grown, or I already blew it because I didn't get started until I was in my thirties. I haven't been to Art Students League or studied four years at an atelier.

Who's to say that the only resource an artist has in the world is the SOG Forum? It's not a bad source of inspiration and advice, and all I can promise to the universe is make a fellow artist's day a little brighter.

We are separating the "been there, done that, bought the T-shirt" group from the novices, who are maybe 55, with a sick husband and a divorced daughter with three kids living with them, a mortgage and a job they hate, and without the resources to take a workshop.

Those that have the kind of time and drive to get the training necessary will do it anyway. Those who don't or can't don't need to be made to feel that the train has left, so what's the point. It denigrates everything we are doing on the site.

It depresses me to read this thread. It's not about the thrill of creation, or the joy of small victories, or even the pat on the back for getting into the game. It's all about the long hard slog to get the information. No one seems to be having any fun.

I paint because I love it. I love how it makes my clients feel, I love how it touches some of the people who view the work. I've studied for years to gain the technical information I have, but I've put in the time because I enjoy it. And even when I was not that technically proficient, I still loved to paint and draw. That's why we are all here.

I am pleased as punch when I see Beth doing a solid three value painting. Or when
Will Enns works out the bugs to do his husband and wife composition. Watching Alicia struggle through three photo sessions before she finally comes up with the perfect photo of that sweet little girl, and then watching as she shares the completion of the portrait. Jeanine and Dedalier inviting us into their studios to share the frustrations and exhilaration of creation with them. This is not chopped liver. I refuse to believe that tremendous work is not being accomplished on this site.

The SOG Forum is a civilized, caring, professional and educational community of portrait artists. We have each others backs. I will continue to participate and contribute as much as time allows, and to share in the joys and frustrations of our members as we trek along on this journey.

John Sanden said that painting portraits is the Mount Everest of the art world. We might not all get to the top of this mountain, but we are all supporting each other on the climb up.

Peggy

A tough act to follow!

I feel the need to respond in some way to this thread because of my drive and determination to become a skilled and exceptional portrait artist. Words, talent, and hope alone will not do it. Painting alone in my studio day after day will not do it. I'm in a college town with an art school I actually graduated from. NO portrait classes, or anything else for that matter available to me since I've "graduated". No portrait classes were ever available - surprise, surprise (as Gomer used to say).

When I want to do something - I have always found a way to do it. I decided to gear up my first love - painting the figure and learn to be a true portrait artist - a year and a half ago. I had been seriously painting landscape and still life, showing and in galleries for 13 years. My background is in Commercial Art.

Stop reading now if you're not interested in hearing my story of my teachers.

I sought out a fine teacher. Artist magazines, books and the internet were the tools which helped me find the best teacher I could find offering a class during the time I could study. I wanted more than a week, of course, but I knew I would soak up everything I could in the course of a week with a Master of painting. I couldn't spare more than a week. I chose Peggy Baumgaertner and travelled to Wisconsin to spend a week of sheer bliss watching and learning everything she had to offer. She taught me to begin and my paintings absolutely lept from stage one to stage 5 (well, sorta) when I returned. I had a confidence in myself as actually having the background and tools to succeed in the portrait world I didn't have before I went. I also feel like I made a lifelong friend with Peggy and her family. The people in the workshop are also special to me now. We have not kept in good touch but we shared our love of painting and style differences, etc. while together. Also, a lot of hiking after class and eating!

During this year since then - I knew I wanted to study with more portrait artists - since I'm the sponge that I am and never learning enough - and after much research and observation, was sure that Marvin Mattelson was the one person I wanted to study with.

Hope was lost though when I hinted online at this great forum at studying with him in New York. I found out that I would have to become a millionaire and move to a loft apartment in NYC and quit my job and spend a few months there in order to attend regular classes with him. This was no surprise. No, he wasn't teaching any workshops anytime soon near North Carolina either (ha). I didn't give up. I knew I needed to watch him paint. I knew that I had to raise the money somehow to watch him paint somewhere!

"When the student is ready, the teacher appears."

This really did happen! Renee Price, another portrait artist on the forum, and I talked a little offline about our posts on this forum, our same state status, etc. She had mentioned in the forum that she was searching for a teacher to come to her area to teach a possible workshop. I told her I thought it would be great if Marvin would even consider it. She was also very very interested in studying with him.

After Renee and I did a little research on site possilities I wrote to Marvin bravely asking him to come to NC for a week long workshop. We talked 3 way the next weekend for around 2 hours! We all decided it was a great idea. As for Marvin Mattelson being a fuddy duddy - fahget it - he is so "real" and personable and dry humored - and, well, that's enough of that.

Renee and I knew we would have to financially back this endeavor whether we got students or not. It was a big, exciting step. We were getting a lifelong learning experience as serious portrait artists. Choosing a professional like Marvin, whom we knew would "deliver" was an important decision on our part. We would never want someone who couldn't teach (hey, I'm a teacher so I can say that!). There are many people out there teaching workshops who really are not good teachers. It was important to both of us to make sure we didn't make that mistake. Much planning and arranging has taken place and will continue to take place until the workshop is actually over but we are all enjoying planning it and want it to be a great experience day and night for all participants. It's a little scary - but nothing Renee and I can't accomplish.

If you are going to save money, and can only take one workshop a year (which is my budget for sure!) then you must pick carefully. This forum has proven to me that it is very useful and I have stated it in many different categories within the forum. I have posted one in progress portrait for critique and will post more often as soon as my broken finger starts to heal enough for me to paint again (sad but true right now). The most useful thing about it for me has been the ability to choose my teachers to study with 'LIVE'! If they both had not been members of the SOG site and not had sites linked to this one I may never have seen their beautiful work.

So many resources here - but I found my inspirations here as well and actually managed to watch the masters paint in person. Nothing can take the place of the live model or the live teacher.

I am so excited about this summer, and so is Renee. So are you if you have found a way to learn from a master teacher. Save up - its worth it!

Sincerely,

What to do?
 

Denise, Peggy, Karin,

As I have contributed to the thread I hope I have not been mean-spirited. I think you have rather proved the point that you have been willing to go the exta mile, find instruction, take risks, work your butt off, listen to your inner voice.

I have been an artist in one way or another my entire life. I think some of us on this forum have given the impression that the way to have success in the portrait world is to take pictures and then keep copying them until we are better picture copiers.

I do not think we have emphasized the tremendous amount of preparatory work that has to be done before you even begin to use color. I think when you point out the proper steps to people things become easier for them, and their efforts less frustating.

I think there has to be a dose of reality here. The web is loaded with portrait sites. The web is also where many people get their ideas of what portraiture is. To many people it looks like just rendering photos successfully is what it is about.

I think we have to take what we do here seriously. We are experimenting with a new form of communication and people's lives.

I love communicating about art and helping people. I do think we have to seriously encourage people to do the initial hard work.

My path was very serendipitous. My first teacher was a master draftsman. We did figure drawing every week. The main thing he encouraged was originality, honesty and a strong point of view.
We did cast drawings in plastic, worked from double exposures, made Maroger, used combinations of media that would probably blow up Iraq.

I taught myself portraiture, with tapes and a lot of hard work. But I did have the basics. I had been a fashion illustrator, so there is not a fabric I cannot render. I know from being in many fields, just how difficult and unforgiving the art world is is.

I do not think that a totally classic atelier approach is for everybody. As a matter of fact I find a lot of it stifling.

I think we have to make room, somehow here, for the aspiring pro and the interested amateur.

I think we can go on helping people, but we have to keep in mind what an awesome responsibility it is.

Sincerely,