Thank you very much for your encouraging comment.

Dear "unregistered" -

English may not be your native language, but what you wrote was perfectly understandable. Please consider joining and posting.

Many thanks Julie, I will do

Actually I am registered but haven't been here in ages and have forgotten my password and possibly my email has changed too. I'm not juried however and I believe when the jurying was instituted I had coincidentally stopped coming to the forum because of too many family issues. Then I had to get a job that took me away from painting almost entirely. I'm painting again but mostly landscapes.

The reason I came here today was to look up a topic that I knew was covered here. In the past I'd learned a tremendous amount here because of all the information freely shared and still appreciate that.

The reason I haven't applied to be juried is because I don't see how I would be able to be a full time professional portrait artist. It's very difficult to get any kind of commission - especially a portrait.

Bruce's idea of a paid critique section is great though!

Thanks,
Doreen E. Lepore
www.doreenelepore.com

Doreen -

A few folks may be full-time professionals, but there are a lot of us struggling artists who work at other jobs to pay the bills.

Julie, LOL, some of us FT professionals are struggling to pay bills too!

Anyone who wishes to may correct me, but I think there may be as few as one or two professional portrait artists who are regular contributors here and who are also able to make a living at this alone. Some do teach art classes or conduct art workshops, but most are homemakers, involved parents, engineers, accountants, janitors (which includes perhaps the best classical realist in my area), musicians, truants, characters, psychologists, bus drivers, pundits and dilettantes. I could barely manage it myself but for marital assets (though the marriage hasn

:) I do not wish to correct you;

[QUOTE]It

I just happened upon this site and am not sure I really understand what it is yet, but even if I did I am not sure I would ?join.? It seems that the computer gets a hold on me and consumes me and my time. I could spend days and days chasing rabbit trails and looking things up, thus avoiding painting. There are just way too many cool sites and interesting and beneficial things out there in cyberspace. I was looking for some tips on how to paint teeth for a portrait I will be doing when I happened upon this site, and now I have been sidetracked by this poll! I will bookmark this site and probably return at some point, but right now I am commitment-phobic.

Thanks
 

[QUOTE=Julie Deane]Doreen -

A few folks may be full-time professionals, but there are a lot of us struggling artists who work at other jobs to pay the bills.[/QUOTE

Thanks Julie, Chris, Steve and Enzie for clearing that up - in that case I'll submit a few things for jurying and see what happens - I'll be trying to paint more in 2008 and hopefully that will include some portraits. My newest venture into professional picture framing might be an asset to people on the forum too.

Doreen E. Lepore
www.doreenelepore.com

It's a real hazard, and good to be aware of it. There are a lot of nuggets out there, but panning for them can be a lot of work and sometimes you just wind up wet and cold. Or you log on next morning and find yourself having impulsively signed up for a piano tuning course when you were really just looking for advice on cleaning brushes.

This site has a "Search" function, which sometimes calls up a lot more than you wanted to know, but after rapidly skimming the thread titles in the Search results, you would in this case eventually find an informative and unusually extensive presentation of observations and advices on this topic:

http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...ighlight=teeth

For the price (free), you can't beat it, but good time management requires that you do kind of have to get in, get what you're after, and get out. Or else add "Piano Tuning" to your "Portrait Artist" business card.

Poll response
 

I am one of your unregistered users. I want to say "THANK YOU!" for allowing me to read your posts, even though I am not a member of your esteemed group.

Deep in my heart, I harbor a secret desire to be a portrait painter. In my dreams, I paint beautiful paintings filled with invigorating color, brush stokes that are "alive" and inspiring composition. I paint works that capture the essence of our humanity and the human condition.

Then cold, harsh light of reality hits me; I live in the sticks, drive 100 miles, one-way, each day, to a job I hate, and have never been able to find an instructor or someone to mentor me. I even ran ads in a few art magazines and wrote to a couple of very well-known artists to find someone I could work under--all to no avail.

I want to apply, but am too embarrassed by my work. Your site says it's for professionals. My uninstructed, uninformed attempts to paint are not suitable for view by such wonderful artists. And at this point in my life and in light of my skill level [more like lack-of skill-level], it has to remain a hobby.

So, on nights when its quiet and I am alone with my thoughts, when hubby has gone to bed, and I am away from the pressure and stress of work, I grab a glass of wine and settle in to read your Web site. I have been reading it for years, and it has provided me with much joy and elation. It's my escape into bliss. I feel like I know many of you from having read so much about you and from looking at your work. I have LOVED looking at the critiques--it has been the closest thing to instruction I could get. I live for looking at those new critiques!

I hope you continue to leave the Web site open for view. You all are my idols and, through your posts, have allowed me to vicariously experience the thrill of being an artist. I am eternally grateful for your openess, your willingness to share your knowledge and your inspiration!

May God Bless you all, and may your work continue to prosper.

I'm sure many of the contributors to the Forum will take great satisfaction in your gracious comments. They form a weighty counterpoint to some of the complaints about the moribund state of the Forum.

If the portrait work doesn't come to fruition, you should pursue writing, at least at a freelance pace. Your generous and thoughtful post was openly from the heart, articulate and artistically crafted. Writing is also something that can be managed logistically from "the sticks," given the availability of both the postal and internet mails to either submit work or even to participate in very high caliber online instruction. It is not difficult to understand why someone who writes as you do also craves a similar facility with expression in paint.

Progress in portrait painting is undoubtedly impeded by a lack of access to instructors and models or subjects (though there are many excellent instructional DVDs available). Don't overlook the value of honing your skills through still lifes and landscapes. Years before I ever thought of doing my first life drawing of a human figure, a classically trained painter and friend retrieved from her library and gave to me her copy of John F. Carlson's "Carlson's Guide to Landscape Painting ." [Aside to Cynthia -- I'll change that to an SOG URL, if available, when I get to my work computer.] That book, still available, incredibly, for about $10, is very often cited by excellent painters as containing the simple but essential fundamentals of any kind of realistic painting, landscape or other genre. Try it. I re-read it at least annually. If you would be willing to email me, I'd be happy to offer additional suggestions. ([email protected])

I grew up in the "sticks" and have now spent the past 30 years or so in metropolitan areas. In a few minutes, I'll begin a commute to work that will take much longer than my old trip from remote farm to nearest small town. Part of my daily fantasy is how to get back out of this human gridlock called the city. I suppose that what we're both looking for, in our own way, is an interior life with breadth and depth, and whole lot less driving to get there. And I suppose the secret is that it's closer than we think.

Good luck.

Your words of appreciation have forced me to respond. I am sure that many of us understand and have been there. Even from a youth, I have longed for the chance to express my self through the art of drawing and painting. My day came and I am exceedingly happy and grateful.

Today, I paint portraits of people, figurative works of my choice, landscapes, still life's, old master copies and many every day cafe sketches. There are also commissions and students that occupy my time as well, which in turn give me grate pleasure.

I, also, have a number of long distance on line students. These students receive instruction how to draw the Bargue plates, paint still life's and how to paint a portrait. Landscapes are an option as well. My fees are quite reasonable and work on the barter system. I do not accept cash, credit card or pay pall.

So, if you truly would like to study, contact an artist from this forum, that you prefer, and give it a try.

All the best to you.

I was very moved by the post of the unregistered lady and just wanted to reach out and give you a hug. My motto is it is never to late and always think outside the box.

We all face obstacles in our lives that prevent us from following certain dreams we have. As a young teen I wanted to be a ballerina . Well, I guess my parents took a good look at my stature and thought that's never gonna happen! So, I did the next best thing. I talked a friend into joining me to enroll in ballet classes. We convinced our sport teacher, who also gave ballet classes to give us a try. At the time she taught 5-8 year old and the two of us stuck out like over sized bean poles. Once we progressed enough to try getting airborne reality settled in amidst lots of giggles, that maybe I was not cut out to be a graceful swan.

Then came the next dream. I really, really wanted to have a piano. This dream stayed with me into adult hood and eventually turned from a cheap keyboard into an upright. I will never be a pianist and perform, but I learned enough to drive my family crazy and totally enjoy my time at the keys!

I am telling you this, because I think you should hang on to your dream and think outside the box. Be creative and start by dragging around a sketch book. Doodle in it while you are on your coffee break, while you are sitting around waiting.... Invest in the DVD's as Steven suggested. I love those because you can pause 1001 times if needed and work at your own pace. Before you know it you will get better and people start to peek over your shoulder. With the built up of confidence you might even start to draw or paint someone.

Just never give up on your dream - where there is a will, there is always a way! :)

A suggestion
 

Hello unregistered!

I've also been lurking for some time now and am also largely self-
taught.

I noticed you had tried to find a mentor which means that you would have time for instruction in addition to your job and private life. My question to you: is there no community center in your neighborhood that offers basic classes in drawing or painting. Just to get you started? It wasn't clear from your post if you'd also investigated this possibility or just looked for private instructors, who might be much harder to find.

Just a thought...

I was just reintroduced to this site (having lurked in the past, though I did not try to register) at the William Whitaker workshop last week in Scottsdale - where I also had the pleasure to meet Linda Brandon and Chris Saper (thanks again for the nummy cookies, Chris!).

I have no problem with the way the registration is set up, it's helps concentrate the professional conduct of the forum. It's also wonderful that you still keep the forum open for others to view - a lot of great info that obviously a lot of artists find useful.

I might still try to register, though I'm not sure my work is up to par. Also, I haven't done many people, though I've done steady work in horse portraits over the years. I'm not sure if non-human paintings are OK to send the jurors. I'm also not aiming to get into doing primarily people portraits, but being better able to paint people adds to what I can offer with equine commissions and original work.

Either way, I should have something human to show soon enough, seeing as I'm now fired up thanks to the workshop. Aside from a large commission of a local physician astride his lipizzan stallion, I'm planning on starting a self portrait, and might even bribe my kids to model for me.

Carole
www.caroleaharris.com

Carole,

You could always post your horse-and-rider pictures - other participants here have done that. I think think they would be lovely to see.

Thomasin

Thank you, Thomasin! I might give it a go at it soon - I'm almost finished with my self portrait and it isn't horrific, so maybe that will help!

Carole
www.caroleaharris.com

This place is very slow
 

The reason - well, one of the reasons - why this place is so slow, is that people who aren't registered aren't allowed to post. Some of us would like to ask questions and join in some of the discussions. I know, I know, this is a place for professional portrait painters only, and members don't have time to help others - perhaps that's another reason why the place is slow.

One reason some of us haven't registered is that we have full-time jobs, even though we are very interested in becoming portrait painters. I, for one, do weekly life drawing sessions and plein-air paint during the warmer months, yet find it difficult to find the time to hire and paint from models. As a result, I haven't attempted to register.

Even though I've just started a portrait class with live models, I'm not sure if I will register, because of the elitist attitude here and the taste it's left in my mouth. Oh, by elitist I don't mean quality of work. I find a lot of contemporary portraiture to be quite substandard, looking like poor attempts to imitate photography - subjective call, I know.

Unfortunately, nothing in this poll will influence or change the rules here.

Actually, feedback on the perceived "painting/drawing from life" registration requirement has led to repeated advisories -- more than once in this thread alone -- that such a requirement has long been removed for application. It's a non-issue as far as posting membership is concerned. So an inability to secure or afford models isn't an impediment (to registration, I mean -- hoping to become a professional portrait artist without learning to work from life has its own built-in brick wall.) The administrators have actively sought input through this sometimes painfully open thread and have worked to respond in many ways, often in the background, in considered, subtle ways that may not be apparent. And really, it's quite remarkable, I think, that the tireless owner of the site would provide this access to the Forum so that those who wished to critique it could freely do so. I may not have been able to muster so much grace and equanimity. Who wants to be told that their kids are ugly? Kudos are in order.

Anyway, yes, it is slow. All sites that matter are. Not much of a kaffeeklatsche, usually, but in fairness, it isn't intended to be; lots of other sites do that, and there's no need to replicate it here. More of a library and a reference site. Some cheese and wine is taken, but that's all off-site, and is occasionally reflected in posts.

I assume that by elitist you mean "attitude" and not quality. Hardly unique to this site are a few who misguidedly believe that aspersions cast upon their perceived adversaries and lessers will naturally steer sentiment toward the strident vocalists' preferences, but it always backfires, eventually. Always. I wouldn't spend a lot of time there. When you hear "shrill," adjust the equalizer on your set. Perhaps you've noticed that I don't always follow my own advice. I can be like that.

If by elitist you mean that the ideal is vainly pursued, well . . . the point of the site is to achieve facility in execution as "the best and the brightest," if you will, who are carrying on the traditional portrait tradition. It's a standard worth holding up. Admittedly, it's fairly muddied of late -- which I think accounts for some of the pace of participation -- and visitors could be forgiven for a little confusion about the focus.

As for having a full-time job, that's also been so much addressed in this thread. Almost everyone here has a full-time job, and almost all of them earn their living and their expense accounts in a vocation other than portrait painting. It's always been so. The ones who want it, will work to get it. The rest -- and I include myself in this group -- will stand outside the mansions and the galleries, looking in the windows, and wishing we had been invited to the party.

But -- we were. It's just that many who hold invitations in their hands never show up.

not elitist
 

i'm a lurker too who similarly has little time and will not be registering any time soon for that reason. but i do think it's strange you qualify this site as being elitist. have you visited other sites, where moderators can be really rough? i think sog members and moderators are polite and respectful. just wanted to counterbalance your negative view...

Mike Renney
 

Hi Guys,

Whilst I would like to take part in some of the discussions, sadly my work is not up to the required standard for membership, which I can understand.

However there have been topics particularly in the photography section, which, as having been a professional photographer for some 25 years, I feel could have helped with, and which to me are fairly straight forward problems, simple to resolve and give advice about but alas I cannot help because I cannot post, which makes me wonder who's missing out, because I can read, digest and make use of the help and tips given by far more experienced artists than I, but I cannot reciprocate to those professional artists who need help with their photography be it exposure, lighting, copying or help with Photoshop.

Mike Renney

There are many members and moderators who over the years and despite their busy schedules have given untold hours helping others. If you look back on the history, you would see that there are a shameful, but appreciated few who have made huge contributions. But, everyone has their limits on time and contributions that don't put food on the table - unless they are independently wealthy.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Do you have a bad taste in your mouth when the Portrait Society has a competition and makes awards? Or when the old American Society of Portrait Artists had Signature status for the more accomplished artists? Don't the most prestigious universities have requirements for entry? If this were a Forum for professional nurses only, how would you feel about being rejected if you were just a nurses aide?

The difference with portrait painting is that there is no formal program of certification to say that one has studied, learned, been tested and earned the right to practice as a portrait painter. Anyone who wants to hang out a shingle and say they are a portrait painter can do so. So, if you had seen some of the portraits that were posted for critique before the requirements were instituted, you would understand why we needed to do this.

All organizations that address the professional have requirements for membership. But, our requirement for a certain level of competency is not elitist. Rather, it's defining the purpose and scope of the Forum. As has been said many times before, this Forum was never created to be all things to all people.

And, if you had met some of the talented and generous artists here who have contributed greatly and spoke to them face to face - you would probably change your mind.

Unfortunately, the Internet has led many to a sense of entitlement - anyone should be able to post anywhere and it should all be free. Yet, most of these people have little clue as to the huge investment in maintaining such a Forum.

Restrictive standards?
 

I am not sure how assisting budding artists into the profession of portrait painting applies to me. For fifty of my seventy-six years, continuously and without interruption, supported my family by producing print advertising. Currently retired, I have, in this past year, returned to my earlier plan to paint portraits.

By your choice this group is for professional portrait painters and serious students. Based on my experience and age I may not qualify, however if I were twenty-seven instead of seventy-six with my knowledge and skill, I would have no doubts or second thoughts about qualifying as a serious student

Ed

Ed, I don't understand. Why would your age and experience disqualify you from being a serious student? Anyone, of any age, can be a serious student. There are also many artists who went to art school, had careers in computer graphics or illustration or other art related fields, then decided to become fine artists later in life. These are highly skilled and experienced individuals who are still open to learning. Or maybe I have misunderstood you.

Regarding "Anyone, of any age, can be a serious student."

I think the formost purpose of this group is to teach, discuss and exchange ideas about the art of painting portraits. It is a forum open to "profssional artists" and "serious students." Regarding "students," the purpose of this group is to prepare the student to sell and/or exhibit his portraits and if he is of that mind, to teach others.

There comes a time when the "serious student" [or amateur] becomes a "professional." As in other professions, professionalism happens when that person earns his living from selling his work.

Galleries and Agents are essencial to a portrait artist's success. They will invest their time and money only when there is a more than a promise to profit from their "front end" investments.

Because I am a seventy-six years old "unknown," and regardless how "professional" my portraits appear, the fact remains, profitwise, an agent's "window of opportunity" is more shut than open.

Bottom Line for "Anyone, of any age, can be a serious student." It is in the context of this conclusion that I question my "qualification" I do not intend to be a "Professional Student."

I also hold no illusions as I recognize that I am, for my age and anonymity, not a promising property. Nonetheless, I will continue to paint portraits because that is what I love to do. I will also continue, if permitted, to visit this forum as a "visitor" though I know a participating "membership" will accelerate my "professionalism."

Still, you may be right and I may be wrong. As a student my "window of opportunity" is wide open, but as an agent/gallery represented "professional" that "window" is, for the most part, closed.

Ed

Ed,

With all due respect, you sound pessimistic rather than realistic.

The fact is, there are other ways to be "successful" as a portrait artist besides relying on galleries and agents. I painted commissioned portraits for 30-some years without outside representation, before recently signing up with a portrait broker. Most commercial galleries won't even show portraits. Many artists get commissions from friends, business associates, etc., on their own with a little hustling. It's a nice way to make anywhere from a little extra income to a substantial income while doing what you love to do. I think there are many artists on this forum who would attest to that fact. Lots of artists started painting late in life and have had time to make a modest success, and sometimes artists achieve more than that.

The key is to look at portrait painting as not just a commercial enterprise, but as a creative endeavor. Then you will see the possibilities open up in front of you.

You can certainly choose not to apply for membership; that is up to you.

Alexandra,

I completely agree with you. I just finished a 5-day sculpture class. One of the students was 90. Ninety. And this was her first attempt at sculpture. She did a great job, but the overriding aspect of her invlovement was the sheer fulminant joy she took every day in the learning and building process.

As you say, it just depends on what any given individual is seeking.

Dear Alexandra,

You are correct. I will continue to do portraits, and the rest will happen because of what I produce and for the directions I choose, That it will be the sensitivity, uniqueness and quality of my paint and not for my perceptions, that my measure of success will be decided.

Thank you for the generosity of your thought, time, and advice.

Ed

Ps: Am I correct to assume

[QUOTE=Unregistered] Am I correct to assume

I am an amatuer painter. In truth painting is my second hobby. 3 days a week I teach fencing and often on a 4th day I'm at tournaments. I have a full time job as well. I am very happy to stay in the background enjoying the high quality of work and learning from the painters who post here. I am thankful that I am allowed to browse. I appriciate the time and effort involved in keeping this site up and running and in maintaining the quality. While I likely will never be a full member I would like to take this opportunity to thank those who "carry the load"

Steve Baker

Your work will speak for itself, in the final analysis. If you can get the job done at 76, then you'll be way ahead of the 27-year-old who, for lack of realistic ability or discipline or fire, doesn't perform. The galleries and agents come after the work is there, so focus on that.

I'm 54 and I decided a couple of months ago that I wanted to learn how to play the trumpet, and play well enough to join a high-caliber community band. I practice two hours a day, before and after the day job, and it's going very well, better than I'd hoped -- I play almost as well as a fifth-grader now! After the 20 years it would take to reach a minimum level of mastery, to really "own" the instrument, I'd be about your age now and my best performances would likely be behind me. With such a late start, I'll not likely ever play lead or really get into the high register with any skill, but somebody's gotta be in those second and third chairs to do the yeoman service, and it might as well be me.

Just last weekend I assisted with an art exhibition in which a top prize -- which included a month's exhibition at a high-visibility local gallery -- was won by a man who has AIDS, degenerative brain disease which is robbing him of motor skills, and is confined to a wheelchair. The artwork was judged anonymously, without any personal knowledge about the artists, so this was no charity award. It was recognition of his desire to create art, despite all the reasons why it was "too late for him, anyway."

Do what your heart tells you to do, without thought to the agents and accountants, or to age. A passion discovered late in life is no less valid than one developed in youth. When you have that first exhibition, I'll come play some solo ballads and old standards for background. Nothing too fancy, though. I'm not as young as I used to be.

I love the site just as it is. I agree with the jury process. I enjoy the level of work shown, and have learned from the knowledgeable commentary.

I am an emerging portraitist working a perhaps unconventional style in watercolor. I may, or may not be juried in, but I do feel there would be no support for my style, or worse that I might be viewed as an intrusion. If I feel a burning desire to drop a pearl of wisdom, there are many sites on which to do this.

I am content and grateful to lurk.

Hello,
I sincerely hope my reason for not being a member of your forum does not offend any of you.

I would not see myself using the forum for advice or information about painting materials, but I am always interested in little insights tips etc: However when I look at the work on this site in most cases I find it difficult to tell one artists work from another, and there seems to be a disturbing element of unintentional kitsch in most of the paintings. Please do not think I am being rude about the work, this is just my opinion. I don't claim to be as skilful as the artists, it is just that I do not aspire to be like them. I can see that there is real craft skill in the paintings, but I feel that they are artless.
I hope this is seen as constructive critisism. I do not wish to upset anyone.

Hi,
I think that any reason for not wanting to join the forum is a personal matter, and I would not have wanted to know about it if it was not because of your hints to the matter.

I would be very interested to know something more about the "unintentional kitsch" that you mention. This would make an interesting subject for me.
Basically I try to be able to paint the way I want, and what I want. So I hope that the weakness is in my choice and not in my capability. If it is so, I will be able to benefit from your knowledge,......if you choose to join.

Looking into this area of art and don't have 2 paintings yet .

I am 47 and serious about the field and have a lot of questions but guess I can't post them .

Feel a little like the job you can't get because you don't have the experience . ;)

Well that answered one question I had .

Was wondering if I was too old to start .( I think we think that about everything we attempt beyond our 15th birthday. "If only I was 14 ,then I could do it "

I have to agree with a previous poster. My work is good enough and I am willing to be juried. However, for privacy reasons, I prefer not to use my full name.