Lots of reasons....
 

* I recall registering a few years back and received no reply
* Emailed again to follow it up, only to be given an excuse of receving the application.
* Then comes the questions regarding my work such as "did you do that yourself"? "who is the subject?".
* Silence again after my explanation replied in email explaining the required questions.
* Followed it up by emailing seeking a verdict => rejected by the judges panel.

......after persistence of about a month, and then being rejected, one starts to question if it's all worth it......

* I'm a lurker every now and then only to see 1 artist who seems to have disappeared anway (and I wonder why...).

Thanks for giving the oppotunity to assist your query.

Note: Some people may join just to liaise with other artists via private email instaed of posting (anyway..food for thought).

I am a registered member, but prefer to lurk around rather than be logged. The reason is that I am uncomfortable to talk about my art developing for the "whole world". The first year I participated a lot and enjoyed it very much, it is wonderful to be able to share and communicate with other artists. but I find it can be a strain to display your full identity at all times. Maybe I was not ready for this forum, I am a semi-professional portraitist, student, and have a job in another field too.

That's exactly the reason why I am not joining--well, certainly not using my full name. I think this public forum may work well for some people, but for others, especially for those with another job in another field, putting one's artistic persona on the world wide web may not be desirable.

Another lurking member here. I wish part of this forum had more password protected areas for members only. there is probably not a forum better than this one , for the portraitist who has reached a higher level.
Big thanks to those who have courage to participate after running a search for their own name in Google.

Personally, I don't agree with this point of view. The SOG forum provides a great service to the portrait painters community and is an invaluable research tool for all wanting to learn in the field. There are already private websites out there, only available via password to members. Moreover, this forum does have a protected section for work in progress.

Actually, what I am trying to say is that I hope SOG forum won't go private!

This is forum is - and should be, a place to encourage and inspire the working portraitist and figurative artist. and a place to find good information. On the other hand I agree to a certain point that our privacy is not very well taken care of. Quite a dilemma.

Regards from a juried member.

Privacy is a difficult area to address.

There are sites that use pseudonyms. I dislike this because it is a good idea to know who you are addressing. Many people say things, especially critical, cruel or scatological under false identities that they would be too craven to do otherwise.

I do not know why someone who is a 'big important artist' would be afraid to post here. If they are secure in their abilities, what would be the problem?

In the past, it seems, that major artists had no qualms about bashing about, especially when it came to art and artists they disliked or disagreed with. Thank heavens they did ,as there would be a paucity of information about their life and times.

I agree that established artists shouldn't have qualms about participating in a public forum like this! And I think this should continue to be a public forum. SOG participants have quite an impact on the community: they share their knowledge and I do hope they will continue to do so. We're all grateful!

Hej danskere, er der nogen?

I just wonder if there are any Danish artists lurking on this site. If there are you are most welcome to contact me and ask any questions, p

''I do not know why someone who is a 'big important artist' would be afraid to post here. If they are secure in their abilities, what would be the problem?"

Smart comments like above is the reason why....

[QUOTE=Allan Rahbek]Hej danskere, er der nogen?

I just wonder if there are any Danish artists lurking on this site. If there are you are most welcome to contact me and ask any questions, p

Hi,
you don't have to be Danish ;) i think, but try to get involved anyway, you will see that you learn a lot from testing your perception of things by formulating them in the debate of topics.

The optimal learning situation is to post a work in the "Works in Progress" section where you argue for your intention and gets constructive critique along the way, you have to be logged inn to do that.

I am willing to comment on any topic that I feel that I can contribute to.

What About Portrait Drawing?
 

The sign up process referred specifically to submitting a painting.

But the name of the association refers to portrait artists. It seems that should include other forms like water color, pastel, and graphite.

My specialty is portraits drawing. For an example:

http://www.waynewalter.com/images/art/megan.htm

Can a portrait artist that specializes in drawing get accepted?

I am considering painting lessons since I have a natural talent for art.

Wayne Walter

I think SOG is a wonderful resource. The time I wanted/needed to post was during my head drawing studies and I was rejected. By the time I was approved I had settled into another forum. My studies have gone from portrait to anatomy and figure drawing, somehow SOG doesn't come to mind right off for that. I will be doing oil portrait work in the future and hope to participate more at that time. :)

Donna

Media other than oil, including watercolor, pastel and graphite (and charcoal), are all welcome and are all represented on the Forum, some with dedicated threads and others appearing in "Other Media" categories.

That being said, the quality standards are just as high for those media as for oils. That has to be realistically and honestly acknowledged and accepted when submitting samples in those media.

No one medium is "better" than others -- though some are more traditionally associated with portraiture, and oil certainly has the greatest representation -- and each presents its own challenges. I'm very much aware of excellent oil painters who are helpless when they have a pencil or charcoal stick in their hands. I suspect that most portrait artists may never have had a hand at pastel.

In any event, whatever medium you choose to reveal your level of commitment and advancement, it will still need to meet the same high standard of quality and execution, as set out at length in the application section. That is what makes this particular Forum work the way it does, and makes the posts and interaction of greatest use to this particular community of practitioners, not in the sense of "best" but in the sense of focus and effect.

Just keep that in mind when applying and give it your best shot.

Do you know of any artist whose career (not emotions) has unjustly suffered as a result of this type of behaviour?

What kind of behavior? Saying nasty things on the internet or having unkind or erroneous things said about you?

If it is the latter, then I would say yes.

I thought it was obvious; the kind of behaviour I quoted you as describing. I post anonymously on forums, and its not always positive; I find it very difficult to believe an anonymous opinion would carry that much weight. Would you care to provide examples?

Since I do not know you that would be difficult .

It has happened and it is unpleasant. Bashing can be infectious, especially when it is conducted on forums that have no guidelines as this one has.

Nuff said.

Aside from the questionable merit of permitting anonymous libel and verbal scourging, the undeniable character of such incivility is that it is dishonorable and unprofessional, which is why this forum doesn

Extremely well said, Steven.

Catch 22....
 

Hello,

I would so love to join this communtiy. I'm not painfully shy, because we all started sometime, but sadly I don't meet the '2 portraits from life' criteria, and it might take a while before I can join. I'm 61, quit work as a psychotherapist after an accident, and I've been learning to paint for 4 years, portraits for a year, as well as other paintings for shows. I was a commercial artist and designer years long ago. I entered and won my first art competition last weekend. I've been lurking here a year or even more.

On a small income as yet, and living rurally, I don't have access to models, so far. I have done two practise portraits from photos, and 5 days of live painting with David Kassan here in Australia, and incredibly, am on my second commission, paid at learning as I go. My clients were really happy with their commissioned portrait, and I am painting the second daughter now, trying both a classic style underpainting. and a more contemporary, to see which works best for me, and which they are happiest with..

I show my painting on other sites and solicit help with the process, and, this is far and away my favourite site. I can only watch and learn. I have Chris Saper's book, and I have done a class online of Mr. Whitaker's Paityn, which I did not finish due to commitments, and recently a class with Scott Bartner inside a forum.. I think I've got a knack for faces, and I really love the connection with my subjects through the paint, and so I'm working to become a really really proficient portraitist.

Two studies, one completed commission , 3/4 of the second commission done, all from photos, and one 3/4 finished live portrait! Sad story, I know. : ) I have some watercolour portraits in burnt umber from life, of my friends from some years ago

I suppose the quality of the work might count? So perhaps if there
was a screening process, I could show the board what I've done so far, and it could be that I fall into a category of 'barely acceptable'?

I took this poll as an opportunity to 'speak what's in me, even if my voice shakes....' because sometimes I actually dreamed or imagined writing to ask if the two portrait rule was at all flexible on my behalf.

Thanks for asking with this poll. I'm pleased to have a chance to say how I feel, and this is a request, not a demand, so I shall also understand if you must stay with your current criteria.

Annapurna McQueen [email protected]
Billinudgel, N.S.W.
Australia.

The Board did away with the "from life" requirement some time ago. Though learning to paint from life is highly encouraged. Many people who cannot find models do self-portraits.

Oh, that's such good news.
 

Thank you fo that Cynthia. I didn't realize. I began a self portrait and became discouraged by all the paint needed for the wrinkles! It's not a pretty picture. : ) I shall apply and see what happens. I would so much rather paint from life, and I may have a volunteer 'victim' soon. I have learned not to take any further commission unless I can make a drawing first. I cannot take a good enough photo that cuts out distortion yet and I trust my eyes much better.

Thanks again,

Annapurna McQueen

Long time lurker
 

I've too have attended but not particpated for many years mainly because there is no need for me to do so. The pleasure is in the viewing, discovering; when one goes to a mueseum, slowly walking, drinking in the colors and the textures then, ah there's that one, that makes me stop. I get that here on this forum.

So I see the need for a process for submission, I'm not however, in agreement with the current format and would probably never submit my own work as this is not my field.

I voted "other"
 

I'm not participating yet because while I like to paint I am interested very much in digital art and portraiture and am wondering if this is only a fine art society that may shun the digital medium or may not be interested in it.

Hi Cassie,

I can't speak about what is accepted at SOG, but I have to say I have the utmost respect for those of you who have managed to apply the priciples of good portraiture to your digital renditions. I have seen some awesome work out there and I admire the skill and especially the creativity!

I am curious as to why you would want more people to participate in the forum.

I ask this because when I see people who are at a lower skill level posting, they are quite often ignored or receive little response. Apparently you must reach a certain skill level to get a decent response to posts.

Why is this so? Is it because those of you have progressed beyond that skill level forget where you started?

If these people were juried in, then their work was deemed acceptable. Yet the lack of replies tell a different story.

So I wonder why you seek more participation.

We have ,over the years, tightened up the jurying process. Often many of the people who joined us in the inception have not improved, heeded our advice or taken advantage of the vast amounts of information available to them.

It takes a lot of our personal time- we do this gratis, to help someone. As our time is limited, we only help those we feel can benefit.

As the Forum has grown we have seen a greater increase in the level of professionals on this Forum. As this is not a generic chat room, that is the group we cater to, as this is a site dedicated to the professional portrait and figure painter.

We do jury in younger people and beginners, but only those we feel have the ability and a future in the business.

Many people erroneously feel, that all you have to do is learn how to copy a photo correctly and, voila! a portrait artist is born. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Ps.
 

My own preference in doing crits is to work with those who are doing the hard work, learning how to draw properly first, working from life, etc.

I will not help those who work from photo reference anymore.

I don't believe anyone here has forgotten what it was like to be starting out. Many many accounts have been posted by young or new artists who got their start relying primarily on this Forum and who have been counseled and instructed through to very accomplished and successful stature in the profession.

And actually, artists of even high skill levels sometimes get a delayed or minor response. It depends on who is available and able to respond and whether they feel they have something to contribute.

The question as to why more participation is solicited seems to incorrectly assume that more participation by underqualified artists is being sought, and so the question as to why the administrators would want to do that misses the point.

More participation by qualified artists would be the ideal. And ideally, almost every member, by virtue of having submitted work for peer review and having been given posting privileges, is qualified as well to actively participate, including the offering of critiques, whether extensive or more tightly focused.

But most of them do not actively participate and, so, for example, requests for critiques may go wanting. The administrators of the site, several of whom might be unavailable at any given time due to work commitments, or vacations or holidays, can't carry the whole load. Therefore it would be desirable if more qualified readers could be encouraged and persuaded to become participating members. Then there would be fewer and fewer orphaned paintings or drawings, simply because there would be more people willing to have a go at commenting on another member's work, or offering other technical suggestions.

During a period of time when I was able to be much more active on the Forum, I used to go to the critiques area and deliberately scan new threads to which no replies had yet been made. I can't speak for whether anyone else -- administrators or members -- does that these days, but it did help keep "goose eggs" to a minimum. Anyone could adopt that practice, still -- it doesn't have to be moderators.

A lack of responses can't be taken as a judgment that the work of a juried member is "unacceptable." If I'm available, I'm much more likely to critique something that needs work (that is, that's not yet "acceptable") than something that is highly polished, but there are exceptions. As Sharon mentioned, there are some members from pre-review days who have been given very extensive critiques and incisive recommendations for improvement over a long period of time, but who continue to post work with the same problems, over and over again. When I see a somewhat dated thread with "0" replies, I often check it out but with the presumption now that it may be one of those cases, because a post that doesn't elicit at least some minimal response is rare. If it is one of those cases, then as I suspect is the practice with other prospective critiquers with limited time, I accept that I've already said everything I can in the case in question and I move on. That is very much different from ignoring him or her.

Again, the ideal would be for a larger body of qualified members to accept a kind of apprenticeship relationship with the lesser accomplished -- something that is actually highly instructional for both parties. That might be accomplished through greater membership numbers, but the question, really, is how to successful rally the current membership to contribute more. If every member committed to one critique per month, the site activity would skyrocket.

I understand that you would not want to reply to someone whom you feel would not benefit from your help, Sharon.

However, I'm sure that you can understand how it would be intimidating for someone who, even though having passed the jurying process, would be subjected to the embarassment of receiving few replies to their work; in effect, being told quite loudly by the silence that their work is not up to snuff.

Yes, they were accepted into the forum. But very publicly, they are rejected. I have seen this time and again here.

Few people want to subject themselves to that kind of humiliation, as is evidenced by the above quote.

Not everyone who doesn't participate is declining to do so out of a fear of humiliation.

But if that IS why they are declining to participate, then this Forum is the LEAST of their problems. I just returned from a huge, high-quality outdoor art show. Thousands of people walk past the booths each day and do not buy or even stop, for each few dozen who do. If each of those instances were perceived to be a rejection or a cause of humiliation, this would quickly turn into the most unhappy of vocations for the artist in question.

Much more important that a particular palette, substrate, or "School" is the heart and perseverance to be in charge of one's own progress and to just keep putting work out there until it clicks with the right people at the right time.

Ah, but it is. Think about it from the point of view of a new member who has not shown their work here and is unsure of what response they may receive.

I understand exactly what you are saying, Steven, and am not blaming anyone for the situation.

I am simply pointing out why I believe there is such a high number of people who have been juried in and who have never posted.

Well, one approach is for the member in question not to assume the worst, but to assume at worst that nobody has seen the post yet or had time to respond to it. Use the "bump up" technique, which is to respond to one's own post by re-soliciting comments. There have been countless instances in which folks gladly offer comments and critiques and lament that they had somehow not been earlier aware of the thread. Folks need to be persistent.

As for humiliation, here's a little story on myself. I signed up for a multi-year course of study in classical realism, based on nothing more than that I'd painted a few rudimentary landscapes while living overseas and thought I'd like to pursue painting as at least a serious avocation. I lived about 25 miles from the studio (once I returned to the U.S.). Halfway there on the first day, I very nearly talked myself into turning around. I had going on in my head what writer Annie Lamott calls Radio KFKD (from the book, "Bird by Bird"), which sends out a message that you're not good enough for this, you never will be, you're out of your league, and you deserve to be humiliated. I didn't turn around, but I was trembling by the time I got to the studio. I was let in through the locked door but then pretty much ignored and I was in agony, ready to bolt the next time the door opened. The first morning began with a life drawing exercise, something I had NEVER done. Most of the other students were light years ahead of me, but it wasn't their job to mentor the new guy. I had to borrow an easel from a part-time student, because there weren't enough. I expected that to be taken care of, but was simply shunted off, told that I would "have to improvise." Hey, no pressure at all. (I in fact built an easel that night, finishing it at 3 a.m. -- years later, one of the instructors is still slightly astonished by that. I use it to this day.) It would still be 2 or 3 days before my first critique by an instructor, by which time I was, to use the word, completely humiliated.

It was good for me. It let me know exactly where I was, and what I needed to do to get better. And I came back the next day and the next and for the next three years, every day. My work embarrassed me for at least a year. Then it got better, and by the 50th or so drawing and 30th or so painting, the fear of humiliation was gone.

For some of us without a lot of natural confidence, that's the way it has to be done, or not at all. I wish I'd been such a natural and so self-assured that I hadn't had to put myself through all that, but I can now draw and paint well, and I'm very grateful that I didn't turn the truck around that first morning.

Same thing, with the reaction to an unsatisfying response to a Forum post. You have to want it and go after it.

I agree with you 100%. But as you know, artists can be very sensitive.

I am curious to know why you have never posted your own work here.

I have postings here as well that have not received comments or very few, although I know that plenty of people have looked at it. So naturally the 1st response is, "Wau, is it really that awful?!"

The biggest mistake I have made in my life as an artist is to be intimidated. After high school, I went to enroll at the University as an Art Major. I had some time to kill before registration, so I thought I go check out one of the art classes. I walked in, saw the work in the empty classroom, was totally shocked, turned on my heels and walked right back out again and enrolled in Engineering Drafting and Design! I had drawn all my life, yet that's how intimidated I was by what I had seen and it set me back many, many years.

Over the years, I have learned that the only person you have to please is yourself. Set goals and work towards them as hard as you can. The bar is set very high at this forum, but look at it as one of the best ways to learn to get better. I agree with Steven that you have to keep posting and be persistent in getting an answer to your questions. Eventually someone will always answer.

I have, actually. It would take me a while to ferret out the various threads in which it has appeared. I can say for certain that there' s work in a thread in the "Nudes, Critiques" section, under the title "Nudes with Values." There's a demo on sight-size techniques, in which one of my paintings appears. There are various drawings in a "Classical Drawing" thread of yore. A still-life in an old Cafe thread called something like "Landscape vs. Portraiture." A portrait-in-progress of my son (I'm not even sure how I'd find that, but I'll have a go.)

I now do more landscapes and still-lifes (and even dogs) than portraiture, which is part of the reason that I have largely removed myself from regular participation, save to the extent that the same "rules and procedures" apply across genres.

How did this come about? Well, it's that old self-assurance thing -- I gradually became less and less comfortable with doing commissioned portraits, for much the same reason I knew back in '83, after two years of private practice, that I didn't want to be a trial lawyer after all. I didn't have the fire. I use the degree to this day, but in a non-courtroom venue.

Just have to keep going with what we have.

Ha! I didn't intend to sneak in and post as an "Unregistered" contributor. This is the only thread on the Forum where you can type up a response and click "Submit" without actually being logged in.