Oh, Cassandra, you silly wench
 

Steven, I'm surprised at your insinuation. Usually you're not the kind of person to level something like that, but hey, obviously this is an emotional topic for most of you. As a matter of fact, I gave $180 to public radio in Toledo and Michigan last year, and similar amounts the 15 years before that.

Reading these posts, I'm just not feeling the love. I probably should have just kept my ideas to myself, but I thought my experience would be helpful. How many other people on here have actually done a transition like this before? I followed it up with loads of suggestions and other ideas, if the goals are what Cynthia says they are.

And, true to form, the Forum responds with sniping, snideness, and sarcasm. On a positive note, your attachment may indeed may make it all work out.

Cynthia, you asked if the Forum was worth it - I can't remember the last time I read something very interesting. Oh, wait, it was the conversation between Tim and Marvin, and instead of moderating it, it was quashed with all the arrogance possible. And you *are* still screening members? I thought you'd stopped.

There are loads of nice, talented people on here, but more and more it's petty tyrants and BADDDD paintings.

So, no, I wouldn't dream of paying you. Especially if the message was "Hey guys, I'd like to work less and make more money. Could you spare $40? And could the people doing half the work please do it for free?"

So knock yourselves out. Send me an email in a year and let me know what happened. I did meet lots of other people here who led me to other forums and venues - I'll be over there.

Please delete my free membership

Thanks
Lisa

Just noticed this today, and I admit to not posting much, but I'll give my $.02. I have found this forum to be of much higher quality than Wetcanvas, almost to the point where there should be no comparison. I have gotten critism that I could not have gotten anywhere else, which I am greatly appreciative of. My only problem, is that I wish I would recieve more. I understand posting in the drawing area is not as popular as the oil area, but I don't do oils. When I do get responses, many times it's from the same people. I would be very fustrated paying a fee and not getting much feedback. I'm here for the critiques, I don't feel qualified enough to critique someone else, unless I'm confident on my response.

If the fee is imposed, hopefully there will be more participation, as I notice that there are rarely more than 5 people every time I log on, maybe I'm in at the wrong time. If potential clients are no longer allowed to view the forum, then I feel figures, including nudes, should be included. I was told nudes were not allowed to prevent clients from viewing, but that should no longer be an issue. I don't do many nudes, but the ones I do, I still consider portraits. If there is any concern on bad taste, I would be willing to submit to a moderator first before posting. I also want to read Marvin and Tim having disagreements. As long as childish remarks or namecalling can be avoided. If someone has a strong opinion, I feel they should have a right.

I'm not sure if I'd be willing to pay a fee. The amount of responses to my posts and my low participation to other posts (my fault ofcourse) may not seem worth the trouble. The quality of reponses are worth it, but they are too far in between. If I become no longer part of this forum, let me say it was great, and many thanks to everyone, especially those who helped, and to Cynthia, who is doing a great job and the amount of work she puts into this, I'm sure is underapprecaited. I don't think she would would ask for a fee unless it was needed. Thank you.

No. When the fee starts, I'll move on
 

No. When the fee starts, I'll move on.

My two cents
 

I like the idea of a 30 day free membership. That would be enough time to convince anyone of the value of this forum.

I certainly would be willing to pay for the privilege of participating/viewing. For a while, I just about lived in the archives! They and the critiques have been invaluable in my own growth as an artist.

It's a good idea to have some "hardship" waivers, though.

It appears that the subject of money is bringing up a lot of emotions in people. But this forum is definitely worth some money spent and it sure beats Cynthia having to quit doing it if the administrative costs get to be too much.

Dear Cynthia, et al.;

Although money is an issue with me, more so than I wish it were, I would still approach this matter much as Chris has. Because the forum is, overall, a good and valuable one for me I would be willing (able) to pay a modest annual fee for participation (both reading and writing). I haven't posted as often as I would have liked to over the years, but I have certainly benefitted numerous times from reading. Plus, I have certainly made some fine e-quaintances here; friends, really. (In fact, I hope to meet many of you at this year's Portrait Society of America conference). I also understand the mountain of work that it takes to keep such a forum going, as well as the upkeep of technology and hardware, etc.. So, yes, a small annual fee is in order.

All best.

Juan

Posting Fees
 

It's pretty difficult to gather any money when you are just starting out. Yet, at the same time, when you are just starting out is when this forum is of the most use.

I recognize the need to finance this forum, but the issue is how best to do it. If I might be so bold, I would suggest a fee schedule based on replies and posts.

For example, perhaps $5 to post a new subject, and $1 per reply to a post. This is only a suggestion.

Cynthia, you wrote: Since this issue seems to be one of the most problematic, perhaps a one-time joining fee for new members would be a good place to start.

And in case it sounds like I'm trying to avoid paying for myself, I'd be happy to make that retroactive for my own membership, too. Of course, as I mentioned above, I'd also be happy to pay a substantial annual fee, since this forum has been so helpful to me.

To Fee or Not to Fee...
 

I have found this forum to be an absolute miracle! That may sound trite, but it's true. I have found the responses to my postings either positive, constructive , or no posts at all. Why no posts? Probably some of the BADDDD paintings previously referred by a now previous member (not being as experienced or as confident as most artists here, I take that comment personally). Cynthia,never have I participated such a constructive forum before and I value it greatly.

Ariving at the right price of such a forum is similar to finding the right price of a painting. In the Stroke of Genius website, it clearly states that prices should be a certain minimum as not to undermine the other artists on the site. I can not afford to have 90% of the artists on this site paint a portrait for me. It does not, however, keep them from painting for those who can, allowing me to simply appreciate and learn from their work via SOG.

Yet I'm often told "You charge HOW MUCH??? My cousin's half-sister's brother-in-law's nephew only charges $25." Well then they can go to him for their next painting. I'm swamped as it is.

Bottom line, if you charge a fee, some may go elsewhere, some may stay, some may stay and complain. Guess what? You've got that now. I would be willing to pay a fee and my funds are as tight as they come. I think we can forgo a night of pizza for a year of invaluable forum membership.

Michelle, I think your idea is a GREAT one!

Though the offended member has apparently resigned, I'll just say that the "public TV/radio" reference was by way of analogy -- a pretty apt one, I thought -- and wasn't a reference to anyone's personal practices in that regard.

Obviously there are some old issues welling up here that have nothing to do with the subject of a member fee per se. It's unfortunate that they haven't been raised constructively prior to this, so that they could have been addressed.

A side issue as well, but it seems we're careening in that direction -- as for matters such as the quality of work displayed for critique, this is, after all, in large part a teaching forum, with, admittedly, a dearth of volunteer teachers. The whole point is that the works have shortcomings, problems to be solved. The benefits of the process are presumably shared by many more than the artist in question. Fully realized, professional-grade works show up initially (or eventually) in "Unveilings", which hardly qualify as "bad."