Honest work
 

Michael,

I appreciate your candor and honesty in posting you efforts in life drawing on this forum.

When I was starting to investigate this field about 15 years ago there was no information, nada!

Fortunately, I had somewhat of a fine arts background having gone to the Boston Museum School and also studying privately with a very fine teacher. I must say the school was mainly useless. I thought the same as most people who post, just copy a photo and make a portfolio! What a huge waste of time that was. I found I had to hire models, buy whatever tapes were available (thank god for Daniel Greene) haunt museums, go to figure-drawing classes. It was a lot of work and what awful paintings I made. Most of them are in the huge Johnson, RI landfill.

I think this forum is useful in many ways, it dispenses useful information that is hard to get elsewhere. I have benefited by meeting some very talented people that I otherwise would never have had the chance to communicate with. It has been a very valuable materials and techniques resource as well.

I agree wholeheartedly with Marvin Mattelson about pointing aspiring artists in the proper direction. The bandaid approach simply does not work. I think we have to make people aware just how difficult figurative and classical painting is. To do less is a disservice to ourselves, the profession and those who seriously want to learn.

Sincerely,

Sharon:

Thanks for your post. It is "uncomfortable", but that is how I know I am on the right track. :)

When you look at the work of the more established portrait and figure artists like Daniel Greene, William Whitaker, Nelson Shanks, etc., you come away with one thing these people all have in common - to a person, they can all draw and paint from life very well. Further, if you look at their work, you realize that the way they are getting such incredible paintings is that they understand how to "see".

Their work did not get that good from painting from photographs, it got that good from painting from life - most if not all of them under the watchful eye of a master painter who themselves learned that way.

So you say to yourself: "well, how am I going to get there?" (this has become my mantra)

We all paint from photos, but that should not, IMO, be the end. A good portrait artist should be able to paint from photos AND from life and do both with equal aplomb. I for one will not be satisfied until I can.

Your list of exercises and steps are dead on.

One of the best ways to learn to paint from life under all sorts of lighting conditions is to use the model that is always available (and often overlooked)...yourself in a mirror.

I have a suggestion on how we can tackle the

The shortest point from A to B
 

Sharon and Michael,

You put me in the uncomfortable position of being agreed with. My fallback approach has always been to see what others are doing and look in the opposite direction. But I do kind of like the fuzzy warm feeling I got reading your words. Strange, huh!

But seriously, I feel it is supremely important to have the benefit of being guided by a knowledgeable teacher whose approach is based on sound broad based principles. One can personalize and customize one's approach once a wholistic understanding of the painting process has been achieved.

One should be able to paint directly before one attempts to glaze. One should be able to control a limited amount of colors before one expands one's palette geometrically. One should understand how to make a ball appear round before one tries to paint a head. One should be taught to see accurately before one attempts to manipulate and interpret what lies before them.

I may be missing something here, but haven't those who are calling for us to "step up" and demo been trained in schools, workshops, videos and ateliers themselves? Is there someone out there who has developed solely by even reading only books?

Wait! That's exactly how I was trained after 4 wasted years at the Philadelphia College of Art. I developed into one of the country's leading realistic illustrators, painting covers for Time Magazine and ads for IBM, yada, yada, yada. I was blessed with good instincts and a lot of talent and taught myself to copy photos with the best of them.

I knew however there was a severe lacking of understanding on my part, so I searched out until I was fortunate enough to find John Murray, a former student of the late Frank Reilly. John was able to fill in the blanks as to why I was doing what I was doing. It was the beginning of my transition from a renderer to a painter.

I studied with John part time for ten years, at a huge cost, taking away what little precious time I had to spend with my family. I gave up one day a week to paint from life under his supervision. In the beginning it was embarrassing, because everyone in the class knew of my reputation, but I had a goal in mind so I persevered. The first under painting I did looked like Mrs. Gumby! As time went by I improved dramatically. When John got called for jury duty he asked me to run the class, although there were students that had been studying with him longer. That was a great honor.

So I

Marvin, I wholeheartedly believe in what you say. Nothing takes the place of studying with a pro in a workshop setting, but the reality is that this is a dream for many. Depending on the stages of their lives this might be more difficult to achieve than we imagine. This is why this forum offers some guidance in the right direction.

I like to compare painting to playing the piano. Many can make out the notes on a sheet of music and some have even managed to play a piece from beginning to end. But how they play differentiates the skilled from the novices. To have the master

Oh Good Grief, Marvin I agree!
 

Marvin,

I did have the wonderful opportunity to study with a wondeful painter when I was young. The time spent in that studio working from models, testing out color ideas, etc., working side by side with other students was an experience that can never be duplicated. I felt I was alive for the fist time. Unfortunately the Boston Museum School which I attended was woefully lacking in the areas I was interested in, namely figurative art. They were and still are in the throes of abstract expressionism. I know how to paint with sand.

I went on to be an illustrator, as that was the only way I knew I to support myself and still draw people. I had one of the best agents, Gerald and Cullen Rapp. Boy did I make a lot of money! I couldn't get out of my studio.

It was a very usefull period in that I had to learn photography. There is not a fabric or bug I cannot render. It was great in that I learned how to light and pose models. However it was all slick surface and no guts.

Going back to painting has been difficult but rewarding. I still get calls now and again for illustration but it does not interest me in the least.

What I think is particularly embarrassing is somehow we have given the impression that this field is so easy, that all you have to do is render accurately from photos, and voila, another portrait artist. We have some very educated people on this forum and they know the effort, time and sacrifice it went into building their careers. Why do they think it is any less effort to become an accomplished artist?

I have gone without food, rent money, health insurance, rattled around in old and unsafe cars, you name it, to pursue the privilege and joy of being the best artist I know how to be.

Marvin, we may not agree on the details, but we agree on the guts.

Sincerely,

I would like to ask Marvin what use he actually sees in this forum, apart from using it as a promotional tool for his own workshops. (I know you mean it as well-intended good advice, but still...)

When I read the recent posts of Marvin and Sharon it seems to me you are in a similar situation. First you both became very succesful illustrators, and as a reaction to that, you seem to overreact a little. 'Real' painting instead of 'copying photographs'... Portrait-painting isn't easy, but hearing you both being so serious one could easily lose the fun it also should be. It becomes pretentious this way, I'm sorry to say.

I read the two last posts Sharon made in the painting critiques and the pastel critiques section. The only thing you seem to do now is direct someone who shows a drawing or a painting and a photographic reference to this thread in which you point out your step-by-step-plan. It seems like you decided that you do not accept people's effort to create something based on photographic reference?

Peter

How long can this go on?
 

Yes Sharon, as former illustrators under the skin, we've had very similar experiences. I agree, too many believe that somehow, learning to be an artist is supposed to be easy. I tell my students that being a great painter isn't brain surgery, it's MUCH harder.

I recently had a student come to my studio from out of town and study with me privately for three weeks. She was a medical doctor. She made fantastic progress, by the way. She was very talented but with no formal training. On the last day she said to me, "Yes it is much harder than brain surgery!"

Enzie, I appreciate what you are trying to do. As a "pro" the most profound bit of knowledge I can share with everyone is, find a good teacher if you want to improve. Having had mediocre teachers in the past is no excuse to stop looking. Instead of perusing info online, get a part time job; don't eat at restaurants; flip burgers; baby-sit; don't go to movies or on vacations; save money. Where there is a will there is a way.

Come to NY City in July or Greensboro NC in June and study with me! You'll have a great time, laugh and learn more than you could ever imagine. Both workshops are at college facilities so dorm room accommodations are available.

To excel at anything requires great personal effort and sacrifice. You have to want it. Ask Sharon, she'll tell you.

It's interesting that many of those who have inquired and signed up for my workshops are those who would seem to need it least. Hmmm!

Peter, I

Overeaction?
 

It was more like painful surgery!

Marvin and I are more comfortable hurling polite brickbats at each other rather than agreeing. One thing we do agree on passionately is learning and mastering your craft!

I don't know how many blind alleys I went down, years I wasted with erroneous views and improper information. If I could spare that aspiring student some of that pain, so he or she would be able with more confidence bring their vision to fruition, I would be happy.

Marvin has spent a great deal of time and effort trying to rescue paintings so inept that not even an intercession with Mother Theresa could have saved. This I must say, though it kills me, without mentioning his workshop.

This kills me even more! His students seem to be progressing apace!

Sincerely,