please forgive
 

Thank you for putting me in my place. I had no right to offer my thoughts when I haven't read every post. I am sorry for my suggestion.
morgan

Morgan,

Putting you in your place? Goodness what did I say?? I'll have to go back and read. That wasn't my intention.

Additional Thoughts on the fee structure.
 

If one were to purchase a book on painting, it would cost from $15 to maybe $60. The average being around $35.

If one were to purchase a movie on painting. It would cost some where in the order of $40 to $125. With the average being around $75.

If one were to purchase a 37 ml tube of oil paint it would cost from $3.00 to maybe $25.00. With the average being around $6.00.

If one were to purchase a Hog Bristle Brush it would cost from $1.00 to maybe $15.00. With the average being around $4.00.

So this is my point...

If one were to charge to visit and be a member of a for fee web site, one could be expected to pay from $10 to $100 a year. With the average being around $45.

So, I would suspect that perhaps $45 would be a number to charge for the maintenance of this site.

I, myself, would pay $45 to be a member of this site, but only if it could offer slightly greater resource access in some (as yet undefined way). I am not complaining. I just think that an increase in the fee structure from $0 to $45 is too dramatic initially.

Summary:

I would like to propose a $45/year fee structure. It would include some kind of product or magazine discount and artist registry. My overall feeling is that $45 is really too steep a change from free to paying.

Morgan,

I just read back over my post and nothing was intended to "put you in your place." So sorry if it sounded like that. Because of the heavy traffic to this thead today, I'm whipping out answers quickly.

Your participation in this Forum is highly valued by all and we'd be most honored any time you can spare us some time.

Robert,

Thank you for your input and ideas. I have no on-hand discounts to offer. That would require getting on the phone and trying to sell the idea to one or more companies. Could be a lot of time just to accomplish that one thing.

I agree that 0-45 is too steep.

Hi Cynthia,

Well, it has been interesting to read these recent posts.

I'm one of the ones arguing for advertising. You already have ads on the left hand side of the monitor, every time we post, read posts or just log in. I would dearly love to click on an ad for Morgan's video, or for New Traditions art panels, or to check out whatever any working artist or artisan wants to sell me. (I already own most of what is currently on the left side of the page, by the way.) Surely, this space is valuable to people who want to sell to artists.

Your Dick Blick ad is not in-your-face enough to count as a representative sample of ad use here.

If you gave professional artists a financial incentive to support the Forum - if they could make some money here to help them survive - you would get more input from them.

Here's what I see happening with posting: if new people don't get a good reaction to their work, they stop coming back. No artist likes indifference.

Cynthia, I hope it goes without saying that this site has been incredibly useful and helpful to me. It is worth a lot of money to me. I just worry that we will lose some people if we start to charge.

I enjoy so many of you! You have no idea.

A newbie speaks
 

I just joined 3 days ago and, at first, this thread made me feel very uneasy. I worried that this wonderful meeting place would cease to be. But it also made me realize just how much I VALUE this site.

When I stumbled across this site 6 months ago I couldn't believe how deep it was, what an incredible resource it was. And I was struck by how well it was organized, and especially impressed by the level of discourse: courteous, dignified, positive, constructive, informed, friendly, generous - I could go on and on. This site has been critical in helping me to focus my energies, my attention, my aspiration toward the goal of being the best portrait artist I can be.

And it's not the (plentiful) knowledge that's offered here that is key for me. It's the people. The moderators are all wonderful and Cynthia, you are simply exceptional. That's why the site is so good. I feel so encouraged and I've only just begun participating. (Cynthia, I can't believe you've been doing this much work without remuneration.)

So after journeying through this long thread I realize that most members value this site as well. I see roughly 65% of members would be will ing to contribute, and some others (students for example) would like to but can't. I am no longer worried.

I think a one-time startup fee, or an annual membership fee is entirely justified (I don't like the idea of paying for each post or reply since I'm not very good with money and might end up spending thousands and not know it.)

If I have to I will cancel my public radio contributions to pay for this. I just won't listen to NPR anymore :o

IT'S WORTH IT!

-David Draime

This forum has been an invaluable resource to me. I voted my preferred fee amount, but I would beg, borrow, or steal just to keep access to the archives of this forum, even if I never posted again! I usually check in daily, although I don't always log in, just to see what is going on. I am usually treated to some kind of information that interests me, I get to view some of the greatest "unveilings" ever, and I get to laugh at the humor, and cheer for those I see making progress. Definitely worth it Cynthia!

When I put those there, I never particularly thought of them as advertising. I put them there as things that would be helpful to the artist.

If you're talking about making an advertising pitch to some large or medium company, I really don't have the time or heart to educate myself on putting together a marketing program and then trying to pitch it to them.

However, something like Morgan's videos would be perfect, of course. And, along those lines, then I should start charging Peggy for her videos that are there. Chris' book is a Amazon affiliate link as are the other books.

But, that still doesn't address the other reasons for charging a fee.

Frankly, I'm not all that familiar with what the artists would even like to see offered.

So, you consider the left side to be in-your-face? At 800x600 resolution, it's just a narrow space - not very big.

Cynthia,

I have not painted a portrait since maybe early December, but I still log on at least every other day to see what's cooking and get inspired. I paint more landscapes and still lifes than I do portraits, so I wish there was a site as full of quality or as easy to read as this one dealing with those subjects - BUT a lot of what I have learned here applies to those as well.

I would pay a fee. I'd prefer a one-time fee and I'd prefer it to be small. That is not to say it isn't worth more becasue it is. I'd most-likely pay it if it were larger. I am afraid it would change the dynamics though. I'd be more likely to whine if I were paying and no one responded to something. When we pay we feel like customers - when we are participating it is all appreciated.

The information here has been invaluable to me. It was a shock to find out what bad photos I was painting from. I worked only on my own talent and intuition and this place has been wonderful.

I have learned much - where else could I communicate with such well-known artists. I recall when I first was on telling my husband, "Hey - I have her book and she just critiqued my work."

This is not the only forum I go to - but for now it is the only one I would pay for.

I do wish we had more big-names here - with more range of styles. Certianly still in the realistic venue, but just more variety. I know there isn't anyway to control that.

I have one suggestion - what about all the workshops that are advertised? This forum is used a lot to promote those. What about a small fee (perhaps not required, but by trust) from the students the bigger names get from this place?

Forum Fee
 

There are a lot of good artists on the Forum that provide very good information. It is a give and take situation. I would think the artists with the most experience and information would not want to pay since they have so much to offer. Consequently, you may loose some of the best artists on the Forum because they are the ones that should be paid instead of having to pay.

Kimberly,

There are some excellent artists who have registered but are not participating. I suggested elsewhere that members are welcome to go through the member list and invite some of the members who have not been active to come on.


Marta and David,

Thank you for your appreciation and kind words.

. All you have to do is ask any cranky, opinionated working artist for his "Favorites" list. I have at least 30 on mine. Personally, I would love to see sites relating to easel manufacturers, paint producers, panel and canvas manufacturers; all these small "boutique" places that are mentioned from time to time on the Forum but can be tough to track down unless you read every post.

You could send an email to each website and ask if they would be interested in paying a fee for a spot on your Forum.

I didn't mean to sound perjorative when I used the term "in your face". If I were an advertiser, I would want to be "in your face". The Dick Blick ad gets lost the moment you scroll down. The ads on the left stay on a long time (especially if one takes a long time posting a response). That's where I'd want to be if I had anything to sell to other artists.

I also think it's worth a shot to ask for donations from Forum participants.

As far as getting people to respond to posts, how about this idea: requiring that every poster must respond to another post in, say, a 1 to 3 ratio - for every image you post you must drop three responses (critique or encouragement) to another. (I suppose this is the Karma theory of posting.)

Part of the problem here seems to be the vast amount of time the Board spends on things like deciding who can be a Member. (Some of you may not know that not all Moderators are on the Board; I'm not, for example.)I admit I have never taken part in these decisions, but I suggest making it easy on yourselves by allowing, say, only 5 people per month, first come, first served, with no quality reviews. If an artist doesn't post within a certain time period, well, time's up

Daniel,

This has been addressed earlier. Of course we want to tempt and keep the best artists, so concessions would be made for them. I certainly wouldn't charge a fee to Bill Whitaker or Morgan Weistling, for example. When they come on, they are doing all of us a favor.

By the way, Ann Kullberg, who is a published author and very well known in the field of colored pencil portraits has a successful fee-based educational site. She charges $25 for a 12 issue subscription and $15 for a 6 issue subscription and has over 600 subscribers.

All suggestions will be considered. However, what I can do is limited by the capabilities of the membership software that I would have to purchase. Such things as charging for individual critique requests are not covered, for example.

I'll take a shot here and go on the slight possibility that I may be considered to be one of those "best artists."

As a dues paying member of the main SOG sight I would be exempt from additional membership fees since I already pay to be linked to the mother ship.

I became active on the forum, at Cynthia's suggestion, when I asked her about listing my SVA classes on the SOG bulletin board. She said I could also list them here, on the forum, as well. The rest, as they say, is history.

I really enjoy participating here and have made many great friends. I have posted what I believe to be a lot of valuable information. Check my profile and set a spell. I have on numerous occasions be told that my words have been printed out, scoured and devoured

Some here have responded very well to me and at there bequest I have led a few workshops outside of NYC. This has always happened serendipitously and the results have been in varying degrees of worthwhile according to those that chose to participate.

Once someone has requested I lead a workshop they choose to organize, I have publicized it here figuring that there are others here that would be interested as well. I do this because I want to insure that the workshop takes place to best serve the interests of my sponsors, teaching them a better way to paint.

So I offer a good deal of insightful info on the forum and I sometimes follow it with an obligatory commercial promoting myself as a teacher. I have been told that there are some participants here that may object to this, thinking I should merely just serve up free advice, critiques and reveal all of the knowledge I have labored so diligently to amass because that's a nice unselfish artist thing to do. How horrible of me to consider my best interests and not the best interests of others who would like to compete in the same marketplace as I do!

Since we're debating the issue of ponying up money here I figured I'd throw in my two cents worth. There are basically three groups of people here on the forum. Those that provide and those that take and those who do a little of both.

Cynthia who is running this site wants to be reimbursed for her expenses so that the site is less of a financial burden to her. I think this is totally justified. The question this raises for me is if people are paying money here why shouldn't those who contribute content be compensated as well?

What about the moderators? Why should they donate untold hours editing and policing each and every thread for free? In particular I would think that Steven Sweeney should be paid in the six figures for the yeoman's job he does. How many hours per day does he selflessly offer critique advice? Can we arrive at a fair price per word compensation fee?

What about me? Can I get a free banner ad over there on the left hand side hawking my May workshop in the Raleigh/Durhan North Carolina area? That way I can keep my posts
free of my self promotional references which some may possibly object to.

Since I am a provider of significant content here maybe I could be reimbursed for my expenses: my valuable time, the wear and tear on my old Mac and my electric bills not to mention the snack I'm contemplating while I peck away.?

My contributions here are quite noteworthy. Why, if not for me everyone would be using cadmium colors in the flesh, cleaning their brushes with solvents and using only one light source in their reference photography. Those of you directly benefiting by my suggestions might consider sending money, jewelry, stocks and bonds directly to my estate in Tahiti. Fortunately I don't charge extra for the humor, dry with a twist.

The bottom line is that there are many things involved here and that sometimes when Pandora's box is opened we don't know what may appear.

Just one man's opinion.

Wow there are alot of opinions on this!
I bet you didn't expect this to get this long did you Cynthia?

Just putting my 2 cents in , again. I agree with Linda on the advertising, her "boutique" idea. For example Sharon Knettle gave some wonderful links for supplies that I would never have known about, places like that would be of great service in my opinion. So If you could find a way to get those types to advertise, charge the artists that are advertising to the forum for their books,tapes,classes and workshops (which I think is very logical) and begin charging maybe a one time joining fee after a trial run to these new people, and there are apparently many. That way, you are getting revenue from here on out. Perhaps you should let existing,participating members slide on that one time joining fee since it is they who have ultimately made this forum a great success (with of course your help) and put an option for donations.

Thanks a lot Marvin. After you suggested that I be paid by the word, there was a break-in at my house and this morning I find all my dictionaries defiled, pencils snapped in two, felt-tip nibs left to air-dry, duct tape wrapped around my keyboard (quite an excessive amount, I must say), and a cryptic note about the bones in my hands.

That, however, influences in no way my personal approach here, that this is for me pro bono. In the business of painting and selling paintings, I gleefully cash checks and count pennies (the proper denomination for metaphors about my earnings from painting), but if someone tried to pay me for this, I'd resign. Otherwise, I'd have other people pulling my strings, and that makes me cranky.

P.S. I do think, however, that Cynthia should be "paid", if only to help cover her expenses for hosting this show.

I come here everyday, sometimes several times. I always find something of huge benefit to me as a newbie to the art world. I have to omit I

It's hard to sift through this, because I have a website with Cynthia, and get access for free. I think this is appropriate, as a side benefit for investing in her site. So it's hard to put myself in a reader's place.

But a few thoughts:

1) If I had to pay, I'd rather pay a nominal one-time subscription fee up front. Pay once and be done.

2) Cynthia, if you take advertising, keep it classy. One of the reasons I'm here is the professional look of the site.

3) I don't think my attitude about paying to read would be influenced by finding out that Cynthia was making an enormous profit on the Forum alone, but my participation in it might. This involves an element of trust, which I'm willing to do. But there is a break point between covering the costs of maintaining the forum and raw profit, beyond which--to Marvin's point--the heavy contributors, or at least the moderators, should share in any excess. Just so you'll know where I'm coming from, I don

Hi Cynthia,
I like Linda's idea about the advertising on the left. I am hungry for materials and books and videos all the time.

I am an avid fan of this site and am eternally grateful to you for creating this place for me to come and gain knowledge, insight, and education from artists I respect and feel honored to interact with here.

I would pay a membership fee, gladly. I have voted and encourage everyone who has participated in this thread, or read this thread, to vote also, if you haven't.

Amazing to see the THOUSANDS of people who have read this in two short days. Cynthia, you should charge fees if they are necessary, and I can't believe that they aren't. What you have presented here is attractive, well organized, and as classy as the fine artists you represent on SOG. God bless you, Cynthia.

Would you work for nothing?
 

Maybe it would be a good idea to give the members a clear message as to what is expected from them.

I was fairly active till I received an email from Cynthia asking members to refrain from commenting if they didn't have enough experience...That might not be the exact wording but that's how I remember it.

Although I have been painting for approx. 30 years and have been teaching for about 12 years, I began to hesitate before posting critiques or any of my paintings. I thought the object of the request was to limit input and therefore reduce costs. And I did not want to add to the bill, therefore, I held back.

I am glad to see that I misunderstood the message and that our input is welcome. I love to get feedback but, I think that in all fairness, one has to be prepared to give a little to get a little. I stopped giving advice and I stopped asking for advice...but I really missed the exchanges.

I would be willing to pay a 20$ annual fee to help cover time & expenses. Nothing is for free...would you work for nothing?

:thumbsup:
First let me apologize that I am one of the guilty ones that shows up quite often as a guest - for whatever reason I just don't always log on. So having said that, I will try to be more faithful in logging on so that the numbers are more accurate between member usage verses guest usage.

There seem to be lots of both pros and cons for charging fees, and most have already been mentioned throughout this thread so I'll spare you the repetition. Having said that, I now want to go on record as saying that I feel this forum is invaluable for the portrait artist and it is definitely worth fees that might be charged.

Thanks, Cynthia and moderators for an excellent "meeting place" for artists that love to paint portraits.

Mary

:thumbsup: For the record, I'd be happy to pay any fees that you ask in order to have access to this wonderful Forum.

Needless to say, I have learned a LOT from this Forum. Although I make my living as an artist, I do not consider my involvement here as a means to generate money and I do not wish to wave any fees for my participation here. I am deligted to have this unique opportunity to teach and share whatever specialized knowlege I have been fortunate enough to learn.

As to ads, I would not like to see any ads "on the left" unless Cynthia benefited directly -and in cash - in order to defray her costs.

If you wish to see some amazing resources for artists, visit the following sites compiled by Cynthia:

http://portraitartist.com/resources/index.html

http://portraitartist.com/events.htm

http://portraitartist.com/bookstore/index.html

Perhaps we should mention these helpful sites for artists much more often. Be sure to bookmark them and try to order through her bookstore (it doesn't cost us extra).

Cynthia,

When I first saw this thread on Sunday, I clicked on the $30 category in the poll. At the time there were hardly any responses, so I picked an amount that is half of what local artists organizations charge for annual membership (and for which they deliver a lot less value than this forum).

My only misgiving about instituting a fee for membership is that, inevitably, it will mean that some members will discontinue their memberships. I've grown very fond of all of the members, and look forward to seeing their posts, especially of their work. There's not a single person on this forum that I don't think of as a friend, even if that sentiment is not always reciprocated. ;C

As far as the way in which you've conducted the forum is concerned, I think it's excellent as it stands. If a fee is necessary to continue your good work, then you and the moderators, etc., are entitled to be compensated. Money is one form of compensation, but for your overall effort only one response is adequate: SUSTAINED APPLAUSE!! :thumbsup:

John

Thank you Will. A great many of us struggle with the fine art of portraiture. Thankfully, I have been grandfathered in as I have not yet been asked to submit work for approval. I recall Cynthia mentioning that the site would soon be juried when we met at Peggy's workshop in Sarasota last spring. To date I have not yet produced a portrait worthy of display. My time to practice is limited, in the meantime I am painting pictures that will pay the bills. I have been inactive in the forum for the past year for various reasons, but it has provided a wealth of information that I could not have gleaned from any book, magazine or video. Had it not been for the forum I would not have had the opportunity to take Peggy's workshop. She is a wonderful teacher and although I am not whipping out portraits as planned she made me a better painter . In the portrait world I would consider myself a "dabbler" at this point, and after hearing that the site would become juried all hopes of posting my work were dashed.

I am willing to pay a small annual fee for the privelige of reading the forum. It will be some time before I could post anything for critique at which time a "upgrade" of my membership may be in order.

Well after a long deliberation over the matter at hand I have come to the following conclusion ::sunnysmil

Let me say first of all Cynthia, I feel you are doing a great job and frankly I have not found a site quiet as upscale,informative and just plain wonderful as the site you have here.

Nevertheless at times I felt judged not only by my art but grammer.I realise that you mean well and being the way you are has certainly raised the bar on who participates on this Forum -for that I fully understand.

I am on the Forum as much as I feel that I can be and I won't bore anyone out there with my reasoning for my absence other than to say that due to many circumstances for one reason or another I have fallen short more often recently. I find in my life that it has to do with how much is going on in my life. Obviously, I feel that it is very full and find the time to read here occasionally is a treat much less to be able to submit photos, etc. I am with many of the others when they say how much help this has been to them. I met Marvin in his class along with many other wonderful artists, Tom , you too plus many others. For that I am so grateful.The suggestions and critiques are fantastic information to have. I thank all of you moderators, members and THE BEST OF THE BEST artists for sharing your knowledge.

In conclusion and it was difficult to conclude as I could go on an on but thought I would spare you all---I personally do not feel that I am on here enough recently to vote or really voice my opinion so Cynthia I say do what you feel you must and one day as I check in to see what everyone is up to here at the Cafe'---I will find out the answer to your question pertaining to fees. If at that time you are indeed attaching a fee then I will decide if I feel I wish to be here, if so I will pay the fee, if not---then I may find my "eviction notice" tacked beside my what used to be photo on the left.

Until then I feel honored to be part of this site. If it hadn't been for this site, I would never have known of the 9-11 Memorial Portrait invitation and met wonderful people from New York and their families and that is still an ongoing friendship with them and others who knew them. For that I am forever grateful.

I shall now bid you adieu and good luck in your decision.

Patt ;)

Membership Fees
 

First of all, I'd like to say I never log in to read posts, which I do quiet often. So I am sure I am messing up your calculations. :bewildere

I voted for paying around $25 a year, like a magazine subscription. But a one time membership fee may be a nicer idea, if not too expensive, or an option to either.

My writing skills are not the best and I have received a few emails suggesting to watch my spelling. I guess that is one of the reasons I don

Carolyn,

A few members who don't log in to read is not particuarly significant. However, this thread has been viewed 3,000 times in about 3 days. We only have 420 members.

I think there may be a misconception here about the meaning of the view statistics. Generally for server based statistics on a web page, the view count reflects the number of times the server has been asked to produce a page. This thread has over ten pages. If each of the approx. 420 members were to just read this thread once, that would result in over 5000 views. You can check this by opening any thread and paging through it. Assuming no-one else is on the thread when you do this, when you go back to the topic page that lists the threads the view count will be incremented by the number of pages that you opened. (If you used the back button to go to that view page, you may need to use the refresh button to see the count be incremented)

I think it is misinterpreting the stats to consider those 3000 served up pages to reflect 3000 individual viewers.

Cynthia,
 

Does that mean that 3,000 people have viewed this thread, or rather, each time "I" have viewed this thread to read the new responsed gets counted. I know I have visited this particular thread multiple times.

Interesting point about the statistics, Terri. I hadn't actually watched and tested the "views" stats. I know my stats for my main site shows how many unique visitors as one of the stats - I guess "number of views" is a little misleading.

I just recently joined - but not before having spent several months reading archives.

I enjoy the site - the exchanges, etc. I voted to pay the max fee. since, as one who makes part of her living off of internet art, I do not believe that the internet should be free.

But - I need to say one thing. I was highly surprised to read Carolyn Robles post regarding a spelliing admonishment. The day I receive a note reminding me to check my spelling is the day I will opt out. There are many ways to maintian the quality of this site - and they have obviously been implemented. There's even a reminder about spelling and punctuation staring me in the face as I write this.

An email such as that is unnecessary and I can assure you, unwelcome and embarrasing.

I don't remember specifics, but there have been times when misspellings have made it difficult to understand the meaning of a post.

Statistics
 

In terms of the view statistics, if one person kept coming back to the thread to read each new post after it was logged, their visit would count as an additional view.Once someone leaves a thread for another thread and then returns the counter registers one more.

There were one hundred and nineteen posts on this thread when I started typing this. I will probably be number one hundred and twenty.

If twenty interested people came back to view each new post here and then left each time, that would account for two thousand four hundred views.

On another note, I know some forums offer a spell check option.

There is no spellcheck option that comes packaged with this particular Forum software. There is a separate site that offers spellchecking. It's free it you want to put up with ads. Otherwise, it's $5/1000 spellchecks. http://spelchek.com

I assume that their code would integrate seamlessly into the existing software.

My two cents
 

After giving it some thought, I just placed my vote to pay $20 a year to be able to view this forum. The best answer would be, in my opinion, for Cynthia to ask for donations and have the donations cover her expenses. I would probably donate more than $20 and have a better feeling than had I paid a required fee.

I have learned so much from visiting this forum, and many of you make me laugh! What wonderful people I've been able to 'meet' through this forum.

I did not realize, as an earlier post also mentioned, that my participation was expected. I am just a beginner though I do post when I feel I can contribute to a thread. And I, as at least two others have mentioned on this thread, have received e-mails regarding not my spelling, but my improper spacing between paragraphs and capitalization usage. I feel like my posts are being judged with a critical eye so I often hesitate to post.

I have learned so much from reading other posts, but I should add that I have received very limited help when I've asked specfic questions. In fact, I was so disappointed with my last in-progress painting question in early December that I haven't even visited the site since. (And is was the holidays so I had other things going on.) I just didn't get any response. Could be that 'bad' painting situation that someone mentioned. What seems to work best for me is to search the many informative threads and hope to find the information I need.

I find this forum very valuable and would pay for that value and consider myself lucky to have access to the information. Cynthia, you have a great forum here. What makes the forum so special for me is all the friendly, unselfish people who consistenly contribute to this forum. Thank you all!

Joan Breckwoldt

Joan,

I'm sorry if I didn't communicate this clearly. It's just puzzling the sheer number of people who have been approved and have never posted or maybe posted one time. Obviously there are reasons and I understand that. I just wonder sometimes that there are so many...it's the volume that I'm puzzled about and this should not be taken personally.
This feeling has come up before, plus those who feel the fee should be a one-time fee. I guess I'm a little baffled by this since people pay every year for a magazine subscription and for membership in portrait societies, etc. Maybe this feeling is connected to the fact that this is the Internet, therefore not tangible and therefore seen as not worth as much or as not costing that much to produce and maintain.

I will tell you that I've already put in a good 3 hours today just on the Forum, if not more.

Cynthia,

I think I need to clarify when I said I would have a "better feeling" about a donation rather than a required fee. As my earlier post said, I value this forum and would pay an annual fee and feel lucky to have access to the information here.

When I said I would have a "better feeling" I just meant that I would feel good about choosing to donate for the good of this forum. And I would in all likelihood donate more than the $20 I voted on annually. In my mind it's just a nicer thing to do, to donate money to something one feels contributes to one's own life or the good of society. Think PBS here. Someone in an earlier post said something about "not feeling the love" regarding this forum. Perhaps by asking for donations to support this forum people might feel more a part of the forum, rather than a 'required' fee. I realize it's not really required since anyone can choose not to pay.


This is more of a gut feeling or instinct that I'm trying to describe and I have no real idea whether or not asking for donations is something you would seriously consider. It seems to me though, that there are enough members of this forum who care enough about the work you do and this forum to somehow work this out to a positive end.

Joan