I'm not addressing this to anyone in particular, because in fact so many members have raised the question of how to find models.

I had trouble with this, even when I advertised at art stores and such for models, promising a worthwhile hourly rate. The only reason I've ever done a self-portrait is because I couldn't find a model in Minneapolis in mid-February. Imagine that.

Eventually I did, and I promised her $8 an hour and paid her $10 (and I probably would have married her afterwards.) The reality is, if you can't find models, how are you going to find clients?

You have to get out there and hustle. And you write some checks.

Meanwhile, you can do what I did, which is to ask my family members to sit for me -- if a family member won't do this, you might want to find a more supportive family -- and I was never turned down.

An uncle by marriage (I don't blame him for the marriage, and he and I are still friends) was in town for an event and needed a place to stay. I knew that he was a TV addict, so I lined up a couple of worthwhile shows or DVDs (I don't remember which), and asked him to let me sketch while he watched TV. He had a bad back and could only sit still for about 15 minutes, so we did 4 or 5 of those sessions. He left with a matted and framed original drawing, my "payment" to him.

It was too large to scan so this must be a photocopy of a printout of a photograph. I remember that his shirt was a red plaid, and I put in a couple of small areas of sienna Conte in the shirt for a little bit of surprise accent in the charcoal, and he was very pleased, and I had another drawing's worth of experience under my belt. It was an hour's worth of drawing time, maybe a bit more, and it's not going to hang in the Met, but that wasn't the point.

Learn to hustle. It's the least enjoyable part of the whole gig for me, but there isn't an easier way. People aren't going to come to you and say, "I hear you're just starting out in portraiture and I wondered if I could pose for you." It's gotta go down a different way.

Excellent post Steven.
It is hard for most of us to be assertive. After all, when we show our paintings, most of us feel worse than naked.

There seems to be an inverse relationship between artistic ability and assertiveness. Those with modest talent generally seem to do better at selling themselves than their more gifted peers.

The older I get, the better I am at being assertive. Of course my talent seems to be in the decline....

This subject comes up every so often here - with great passion. And certainly no one would dare take on the esteemed artists here on this thread about this issue. Those who work mostly from photos and have reached a certain level of sucess with them stay off these threads and don't participate.

Who can possibly argue that working from photos is better? Of course not - every artist that isnt still in diapers knows this.

What Bill said above at the begining of this thread was a call to arms for artists to get better. It is not only noble - but highly prized advice from a well-respected, talented, kind and generous artist as well as teacher.

Some of the comments that follow are not so kind.

What some of you may call 'excuses' - I call Jamie, Dailey & Jacob.
Or...mouths to feed.

I will not accept that not having the means to hire live models for every painting session will result in poor paintings. Nor will I listen to nonsense from artists who want to say that if you cant do that - you should pick another career.

Those of you speaking about sacrifices... How many of you would take grocery money from your family to pay a model? How many of you have painted 12 hours a day or more for years and years? Or gone without meals to be able to afford to take a workshop with a master painter?

I wont argue the 'from life' is better - no doubt about it. We should all be encouraged and reminded of this from time to time.

I will argue though that with enough study, skill and hard work...even without a live model - great paintings can be made. Maybe not as often - but it can be done. With enough determination - many many obstacles can be overcome. And working from photos is an obstacle.

I also refuse to be ashamed of the way I work. Am I working under the best possible conditions? No. Nor am I using the best easel, or best brushes...or had the best training. I would go so far as to say that hard-core determination will beat out the best circumstances any day.

In honor of myself and others here who work from photos for the most part - for whatever reasons....I would just like to say that professional respect for colleagues went a little south in this thread. When disparging others working methods it might be wise to use words carefully..... or some things could be construed as disrespectful. Im sure none of us wants that.

Actually, during much of the three years that I spent going back for intensive instruction in the fundamentals, I had two school kids at home and I was the only parent around. All I did during that time was take care of the kids, transport them around to school and Scouts, band and sports, and whatever else, and go to the studio, an hour

Check out Paul Foxton, a new member here, and what he is doing on a daily basis http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk .

I greatly admire his daily cafe sketches and the approach he is taking to re-learning color in his series of single pieces of fruits or vegetables.

This is always tricky, with intervening time and posts -- we should probably be doing this over pizza and a pitcher, with everyone shouting at once -- but let's take stock.

The thread wasn't started to insult or castigate anyone (if I may presume), but instead grew from precisely an opposite urge, to inform and inspire and motivate, and it hasn't willfully developed with malicious intention, however perceived. There has been a generous offer of advice and experience about how it might be possible to move to a new level of appreciation and excitement and fun-to-get-up-in-the-morning and productive practice about what we're all doing here, simply because it's what we most dearly wish we could do in full blossom and, yes, full, casino-grade recompense if possible.

I often hear Forum members talk about how they feel stuck, doing the same thing over and over again, not feeling like they're getting anywhere. Feeling dull and jaded. Feeling like they don't know if they have it anymore.

Bill and Sharon have made some suggestions about that. No one has to follow them. No one has to feel offended that others have experienced what these folks are talking about.

About 98% of the time, the tide in this Forum raises all the boats at once, which is about how 99% of us hope it will go. I don't see why this discussion should be any different. I've learned some things here myself.

I've gone back in and cut this post by half. Not half enough, some might think, but this is my earned and final observation.

I have wondered before about the notable absence of some of our distinguished colleagues on these threads. The ones who use photographs primarily. I figured they didnt feel the need to defend or explain their use of tools to help their paintings.

There is another reason perhaps. This is a 'portrait' artist site. It is googled regularly by artists and clients. If I did more commissions I would not have even put my 2-cents in on a thread where it is indicated that the clients have no taste. I assume that the artists making a living at only commissions enjoy what they do - or they would be doing something else. They enjoy the challenge of merging their skill and vision with that of the clients. Several of us yapping on this thread do figuratives for a living. It is a completely different ballgame since we paint our vision without having to please anyone - but sell it later.

Or...perhaps our colleagues who use photos to aid them...are just too busy painting Governors and Senators to bother with this thread. Then of course there are the ones that will be picking up their awards at the PSA conference next week.

Im sure that when their waiting lists thin down, after they cash their checks and after they hang their awards...they will find the time to be ashamed of their use of tools. Or perhaps not.

oh - and I agree with Steven that over a nice casual table and pitcher would be much better for discussing this. And then when finished - whoever can afford to pay for the pitchers is the winner. ;)

Sharon,
Sorry! i can't agree with you. I am with Bill on using models to improve our art. I also agree whole heartedly with what Steven and Kim have said.

Many of my paintings are of children under the age of five. Without photos, trying to do a decent painting of any one of these dynamos would be almost impossible. You have chosen a particular artistic course and I applaud you for it. However, to imply that any other artist who choses another course of action is less of an artist is just plain wrong.

Just another example of the many ways in which photography can do things that Frans Hals might have liked. And used. (We'll never know.)

I don't care if I'm the maverick point of view, I'm going to say it: I believe photography, if not relied on as a crutch, can be a valuable tool rather than an evil. I can't say how many times I've seen someone with light falling across their face in a certain way, or in a certain position or setting, that fills me with vision and a burning desire to paint. A lot of these moments can't be recreated later in a live pose for various reasons, but they can be recorded by my camera.

At the same time, photography is no substitute for learning to paint from life. And I believe this learning process should ideally never stop. We should not assume that we've reached the skill level at which we no longer need to paint from life.

There are many people on this forum who are learning to paint by copying photos. I don't see anything horribly wrong with that up to a point. Who said you have to learn to paint from life FIRST and THEN you can paint from photos? Why can't people take different paths? There's a lot you can learn about edges and color mixing, using a photo. I don't think we should assume these artists are on the wrong track simply because they start out this way. In fact I have seen many of them get to a certain point in their work and then become dissatisfied, realize they need to go to the next step, and start working from life. Some of them do and they turn out to be amazing. They need encouragement, not criticism. I believe that those who are really determined to put in the work necessary to be REALLY good will take the leap. It's up to them. We should not assume that anyone's an automatic loser because they start out at a certain place.

I've seen many cases of the opposite problem: people who have excellent training from life, in a good art school, etc., who end up painting only from photos and lose the spark. So, as I said, it's how you push yourself all through your life that makes a difference.

Sharon, I never paint the image, I use the image (and life studies and sketches) to paint my vision. There is a huge difference. Plus, my photos, though good for their purpose as references, would never stand alone as art.

In practical terms, when I paint children, I do pretty much the same as you describe.