Here's a link to a beautiful example of a reference photograph posted in another thread by Morgan Weistling.

Marvin, have you ever taken black and whites digitally? (through the camera, not the mode in Photoshop.) Or is it just a waste of time because you feel the black and white film is the key to the tones you get?

Denise, that's a lovely photo. And what's portra film? I use Fuji Superia. It would be interesting to hear what film others are using.

This looks like a fun gal to me!

As I was slaving away at my new digs the other day, this gal was having her birthday party next door at the restaurant. Forty cackling gals whooping it up having a large time. She is one of the employees at the Windsor Market where I have my studio. I think it was a Mardi Gras theme.

I managed to coax her over to the window for this shot. This could be fun to paint.

Dear Mike,

I have to say she looks like fun, but I wonder about the large lit area of her neck. It might create a real nightmare for you unless you are good at reconstructive surgery!

I've posted this photo of "Mardi Gras Gal" over in the critique section if anyone else would like to have a say.

Simple outdoor head and shoulders
 

I like this simple head and shoulder shot taken outside under, and at the outside edge of a patio. I like the way the distant light and shapes come into play.

Victoria has never modeled a day in her life. Maybe because she's too short, or maybe because she likes to gnaw trees.

In the undergrowth there lies the Bloath,
who feeds upon poets and tea.
Luckily I know this about him,
While he knows almost nothing of me.

Shel Silverstein

That's a very appealing photo (and model), Mike. I can see how much fun it would be to paint. I would probably crop out some of that pale dress which draws my eye to it, but her face is lovely and the light emphasizes her features nicely.

Bard of Tulsa,

Is Victoria not, instead, a swinger of birches? One could do worse than be a swinger of birches.

Here is the other thing I'm ruminating: how much harder it is to get a paintable outdoor portrait photo than it is to get an indoor one. This is a pretty good one, I think, but how hard it will be to be subtle and yet not let the shadow side dissolve into a mush of color.

This is why so many portrait painters shoot the subject inside and place them outside. (I can spot that a mile away.)

Note to Wild Westerners: this has nothing to do with shooting 'em outside and dragging 'em inside. That's a whole other topic.

Linda,

So was I once myself a swinger of birches. And so I dream of going back to be. I

Miketh, I feareth I was not cleareth. You take exceptionally beautiful reference photos, indoors and out, including this one. I'm sure you won't turn the shadow side into mush; I just think it's harder to manage the shadow side on an outdoor subject using photographic reference than it is to manage the shadow side on an indoor subject using photographic reference. I'm not exactly sure why this is so. Part of it may have to do with how hard it is to control outdoor light. Part of it is that I think it's often harder to find the planes of the face in outdoor light. And part of it may have to do with my theory that you have to be really good-looking (or young) to look your best in outdoor light.

Many painters of outdoor subjects aren't who I'd classify as "portrait" painters, since they seem to me to be more "outdoor figurative genre" painters. They do incredibly beautiful work but I'm not sure you could identify the individual from a crowd of similar people.

I have an indoor portrait on one easel and an outdoor portrait on another easel in my studio at the moment, and so this issue has been on my mind a lot recently.

I shall be telling this with a sigh, somewhere ages and ages hence.

Linda

Just for the record, I recently saw the portraits on Linda's easels and, though both are lovely, the outdoor one is a real stunner! I hope she posts it on the forum sometime soon (nudge, nudge).

Linda,

You are never unclear. I remember a beautiful painting of a girl sitting on a bench outdoors (I hope I'm remembering correctly.) I think you have a pretty good handle on these matters.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I

Fevie outdoors
 

I don't have any wisdom regarding taking outdoor photos. It seems that you can come up with reams of suggestions on what to do when you move indoors but I have trouble coming up with any axioms for outdoor use.

I do know that there will be occasions when you are called upon to do this work. When I strain, I remember that most of the good outdoor shots I have taken have been near structures or under roofs. Maybe the structures (buildings, tree rows) give the opportunity to either block or reflect light. Same for the roof.

One things for sure, you have to find a way to work the light to your advantage. This may mean early morning or later evening sun, giving the side lit effect. Spot metering has also been helpful to me. Standing in the open during the noon day sun is not good, I'm pretty sure of that.

There are certain ideas and concepts that will only work outdoors, otherwise, for me it's reserved as a last resort.

***

Sittin in the morning sun,
I'll be sittin' when the evening comes,
Watchin' the ships roll in,
And I'll watch 'em roll away again ...

Jeremy
 

While I don't plan to paint from these, I think they would contain adequate information (providing I didn't ask Marvin's advice on the matter...)

The anti-smile advocates among us will be pleased to note there are no portions of Jeremy's skeletal structure showing (i.e., teeth.)

These are taken with my Minolta D7. The original files are 1920x2560 pixels and contain a great deal of detail in the shadows than can not be seen on these tiny thumbnails.

The subject is my daughter's boyfriend, dressed for prom.

Will

3/4 view
 

...a 3/4 view from the same session...

Great Shots
 

These photos are all inspirational in their composition. I'm afraid mine do not measure up - yet!

Wow what a discussion and I am indeed loving it. I see now, Mike, how you get some of those fantastic photos

Pat,

I am not shy about asking people to pose. I have been doing this for a long time. Many, indeed most people, will never have the opportunity to see themselves in a good light. I offer people an 8x10 photo of themselves in return for a few minutes of their time. I consider this more than a fair trade. These terms are understood up front along with a model's release. The Mardi Gras birthday girl has signed a release so I can do with that image what I please.

Most of the people I photograph are not complete strangers, but some have been. Sometimes friends will bring me people to photograph.

I have always considered this my cost of education. For them it's just a passing lark, for me it was always a serious exercise to obtain additional knowledge.

I have reams of photos of people that I could paint when no one will pay me to paint. As far as what do you do with them? You have to be able to physically show examples of your work. It can't be just in the abstract, or web site or a photo reproduction. These examples should be of the highest quality work you can produce.

A lot of the photos I have taken I have passed on for painting reference. I still have to coach myself, and keep reminding myself that I am not trying to make good photographs but good painting reference. The photo just above of Fevie is a good example. I have passed on that one many times but I do love the photo. There is a fine line that I tend to blur often. This is why I always jump to the opportunity to practice. I say hone your skills before you're under the pressure to make it happen for real.

The following is a slightly abused photo of Duke the heat and air man. Five minutes before this photo was taken Duke was putting freon in my a/c units in the back yard.

If business gets any slower I may be painting this long slender composition.

Mike

Thank you for all that information. I often wonder how others work, from which direction they acquire their resources, etc. I was recently having lunch with a friend and a lovely black woman came in the room. I debated whether or not to approach her and finally mustered the nerve. She was alone at her table,I gave her my card and began to tell her that I would love to photogragh her sometime for a painting. She seemed very flattered and said so. I have not yet contacted her due to the fact that I felt I needed to offer her something. The 8x10 idea is good. Hope I may take your advice there and I certainly will take advantage of your other advice.

Thanks so very, very much--you are so generous.

Patt

:oops: I have a grand idea Mike--loan me your cast away model photos for my portfolio.Is that something like "selling addresses"?

Patt, you'll find that you need to learn to take good reference photos for yourself. That is half the battle to making good portrait paintings, unless you think you will always be able to work from life (don't we all wish...)

There are a few very good books on how to take simple but high qualilty portrait photos with no need to understand camera exposures, apertures or artificial lighting. Check out the book section on this site.

I have never read a book on portrait photography that demonstrated the author had the ghost of a clue about how to light to create form or how to replicate the way the eye sees.

In order to take worthwhile photos one must understand how the variables in the photography process interrelate and how to choose wisely for your purpose. Once you have this understanding then you can set up a no brainer approach and get consistent results every single time.

Photo books show you how to take flat, soft pictures with burned out highlights and clogged up shadows.

Using a single light source (natural or artificial) and a reflector board may be generally trumpeted on the forum and can produce photos that look very good, but I find this approach to be ineffective for creating good photo reference to paint from.

Pat, in my workshop you were treated to a properly lit model, one that gave you plenty of modeling in the lights, clear highlights and shadows of a narrow value range where you could see a lot of information. You need two lights to recreate this photographically. A main light and a fill light.

Earlier this year I did an 8 hour photo workshop in Atlanta for portrait artists. It takes a long time to explain it all properly.

Thanks Marvin and Michele

I realize what you are saying about our model lighting in the workshop,Marvin. I thought it was fantastic and if I remember correctly Renee said that she would post or e-mail those who wanted to know all of the information about the lights used and stands. I would love to look into that.

Only once in a great while does there come a boy that is so hunkish and totally Baldwin like. With such poise and so quick an eye. With ears like the open doors of a yellow cab, and with a forehead more suited to grazing cattle.

The shirt is cutting edge (notice the sparkle) and way before metal became heavy.

I hope to paint this someday soon.

What an interesting character study this will be! I look forward to the final result. Do you think you might end up reducing the contrast on the hat to make it less dominant?

Great light and shadow patterns! It's tempting to think about shooting all my reference photos in my studio in the future, so that I have much more control over lighting and poses. Working at the client's home or outdoors makes taking good photos so much harder!

Yes.
I agree. Shadow patterns are a very important part of composition and take some planning.

Taking "snapshots" in places where there is no light/shadow control is a crap shoot at best.

I really believe that poor photographic reference material is the biggest problem I see repeatedly in this Forum. It prevents a lot of otherwise skilled and talented artists from ever being successful in portraiture.

This is a good topic for all of us Michael - thanks for starting it.

Michele-

It doesn't matter where you shoot. I have a portable photo studio I take with me so I'm using the same lights, camera and misc. equiptment wherever I go. If I have to shoot out of doors I then recreate the lighting indoors so I have more control over subtlely altering the lighting on the model. Then I integrate the two references.

Lighting is the most important aspect of any painting. That's why Thomas Eakins called lighting "the big tool." Knowing photography has nothing to do with the true understanding of lighting.

Again you have to understand the difference of how the eye perceives light and contrast versus how the camera does. If you look at the photo Beth took at my workshop in Greensboro, the lighting looks very harsh. It certainly didn't look that way in the studio.

Regarding the boy posted above...

As he grew, he became more and more dim witted, easily confused, and slow of foot.

I got it
 

Did he grow up to be president?

He was once president of a construction company. He was last seen impersonating a portrait artist somewhere in the midwest.

Actually I was rooting around in my office closet and came across this old school picture of moi. I believe this, one month before my tenth birthday, was the pinnacle for me. I played baseball all day, could run like the wind, and had not yet met girls.

I may try and do something with this. The only other self portrait I have done has been defaced by the author.

My mother tells the story of the cold calling photographer who came to the door one day. All his equipment in tow ready to take pictures of your children. She let him into the house to take pic's of me and my sisters. As the story goes he was all set up in the living room when my father came home. My father took the man and all his equipment and tossed them into the front yard.

Apparently this photographer got there earlier in the day.

Marvin, be careful with your traveling photo set up.

Man, I thought I had a lot of stuff to lug around on photo shoots. A stuffed pony!

Dang, my photos get slammed when I don't even post them! :)

This is a photograph I took about fifteen years ago. It is one of the images that I am most attached to. My now 18 year old daughter on our left and my adopted daughter on the right. I scanned this through glass, it's actually a good quality black and white photo.

I am always reevaluating my old resource photos. Each time I look at them, with new eyes, I see possibilities that I could not see before. I may try and do a charcoal, black pastel, or dare I say, sauce drawing of this some day.

I took this recently and I really love it. The model and the lighting. I can't remember taking a better reference photo recently.

Rebecca

I agree
 

Hi Rebecca,

I agree - a great shot and the quality of the shadow area looks good enough to paint to me - not too dark and I can see contour. Did you take this with your mondo digital I read about in the tech section awhile back? (she says jealously)

The only thing I would change about this beautiful photograph would be her eyes- I just wish she had not been looking so far over her shoulder - the whites of the eyes may need to be really played down in order to not appear bulging I'm afraid.

Sincerely,
Denise

Denise,

Yes I did take this with my wonderful new camera. As a matter of fact a pro photographer friend of mine that I know from my art director corporate days (she says with a smile because she got out of the rat race!!) saw my photos and went out and bought himself one!! He has a Hasselblad medium format and a Nikon/kodak hybrid but wanted a not so expensive camera that was more portable for his out of the country shoots.

I do have a closeup with the eyes facing more forward. So when I paint it I will probably use the closeup.

Thanks Very Much!
Rebecca

Rebecca, as I mentioned before to you, I am not sure if you saw it, I think her right hand is going to be a nightmare. You might want to adjust it from bearing all the weight.

I'll have to go read about this camera! :)