Sharon, I have to confess my palette is largely earth colors, and my use of high chroma color is limited. Consequently, I may not require the same things of a "good" alizarine that you do. We'd have to compare notes in the studio for that. Doak's pyrol ruby is high quality, with a good pigment load, and tints "clean" . . . so it satisfies my minimal need for a high-chroma deep "red".

Cindy, a little of both. You'd be surprised how much info is at your fingertips printed right on paint labels!

I've substituted Winson & Newton's Permanent Alizarin Crimson. It's their Winton student grade, but the permanence rating is A.

Seems to work.

Tom, what criteria do you apply to your choices of paint?

You can also try the Pyrrolo Ruby from Studio Products:
https://store.studioproducts.com/hom...ction=0&page=2
I have a tube of this that I bought maybe... oh... five years ago when it was made by another manufacturer. I paint six days a week, use this color in nearly every painting, and I still haven't used up this tube - it is "heavily loaded", as they say.

Alan and Tom, guys! You do wonderful work. Treat yourselves to good paints!

Richard--

A little bit of everything. First quality, not student grade, except in the substitution mentioned. Nothing widely discussed as archivally suspect. I have to be able to get some more locally if I run out of a particular color--I value the efficiency--but most of the local stores keep all but the real exotics.

In other words, I don't turn it into an exact science, but I understand those who do, if they are searching for a particular result.

I was given a pretty good assortment of Vasari paints a while back and have liked them.

I haven't experimented a lot as my concerns heretofore have been mostly tonal. But I'm getting into a greater preoccupation for color so I expect the path will lead to more experimentation, as it has with other folks.

As with Allan's Permanent Crimson Lake, the Permanent Alizarin Crimson substitute has a lightfastness rating of I. I wouldn't base my palette on student grades, of course, but in the context of this one discussion, I'm satisfied with the mixtures. I'm sure there are many other good solutions.

I've been using Gamblin's "Alizarin Permanent" which they label as Lightfastness I. It's made of quinacridone red b, perylene red, and ultramarine blue.

Richard, how's that sound to you?

ASTM light-fastness ratings are a useful indicator whether a given pigment fades as it decays, so that's a good starting point. Light-fastness is not the only consideration, however. Pigment load, i.e., the amount of actual pure pigment in a given paint, proportional to the volume of inert extenders (clays, waxes, stearates, etc.) and the nature of the binding vehicle ultimately determine perfomance over the long-haul.

This isn't to say that "good paint" should have none of those additives; some pigments cannot be made into paint without them.

Having tested to my own satisfaction the common vehicle oils, (and a few uncommon ones!) I found (surprise, surprise!) that high quality linseed oil produces the toughest, most elastic clear and durable film. Walnut oil is an acceptable runner-up. Safflower oil is for all practical purposes not a drying oil at all (i.e. one which forms an irreversible polymer through oxidation) and requires the addition of siccatives to perform adequately as paint. The film it produces is weak and granular. Poppyseed oil is not much better as a film, and reverts to a "goo" in ambient heat (87F+) . Consequently, I look for paints mulled in linseed oil, and that's getting tougher since major brands like W&N have "converted" to safflower and blended oils.

Gamblin uses linseed, as do Old Holland, Williamsburg, Studio Products, Vasari and Doak to name a few. M.Graham uses walnut oil.
There's nothing wrong with mixed tube pigments (as in the W&N Perm. Crimson Lake - PR-177 & PB-29) so long as you know you're starting with two or three different pigments when you squeeze the tube. As I feel mixing more than three pigments diminishes color clarity and brilliance, I try to avoid it on the palette. (tough to do, though!)

Best substitute 4 AC
 

Hi Sharon,

I don't recall ever using the Michael Harding Magenta as a substitute for AC. Maybe you were just too distracted by my matinee idol good looks to pay close enough attention to what I was saying. At any rate, when I started using the Harding colors I tested many brands and the closest thing to his beautiful Alizarin Crimson is the Old Holland Alizarin Crimson Lake Extra. They're almost identical in both transparency and when mixed with white. I stick with Old Holland and Michael Harding exclusively for my commission work due to the fact they are both ground in cold pressed linseed oil.

Take care!

Richard--

Thanks for the heads-up on the safflower oil.

Anyone know if there's a problem with intermixing walnut- and linseed oil-based paints? I've a habit of mixing anything that's on the palette table without regard to the binding oil, and I have both in the drawer.

Hello. New member chiming in.

Old Holland's Alizarin Crimson Lake Extra is a mixed color, I'd like to point out - Pr 19, Pr 177 & PBr 23. The purest Alizarin I have is from Harding. According to him it's from coal-tar not madder root (PR 83.). Now the color codes, as many folks know, can be misleading. W&N states their Alizarin Crimson 1 Artist Oil is PR 83, but the pigment is described as 2-dihydroxyanthraquinine lake. I've nothing against synthetic pigments (even have a W&N Permanent Alizarin,) but find they tend to not tint as well as natural pigments.

http://www.oldholland.com/pages/oil/x5.html
http://www.michaelharding.co.uk/colour-info.php?cID=98
http://www.winsornewton.com/leaflets/EN/AOCEnglish.pdf