Hey Mike, I totally understand what you are saying now I need to understand the magic spell?

I know most of you shy away from very young children simply because of some of the problems that you face trying to get resource photos. Well, that isn't an option for me, I truly LOVE paiting those pudgy little people and am not going to stop. But as I was reading your above statement my brain flashed to the moment I was taking those indoor shots. By that time we had gotten to that window ANY thought of getting him to pose where I wanted him to was a joke, so we basically bribed him to stay in that general area and shot away while he talked our ears off about various important issues.

Small children move around so fast, that being methodical and posing them while looking for the perfect lighting conditions is next to impossible b/c as soon as you think you have it they see something better a foot over and bam..your perfect picture is gone.

So what do you you do? What, if any, steps can be taken by people like me that are going to take this task on?.

Once a child is 5-6 or so, they are more patient and cooperative making it easier to pose them..(of course then, the new issue is getting a NATURAL expression on their face instead of CHEEZ).

Maybe this is a question for the creativity issues section?

Hi Mary,

I thought I would share some things with you that I learned by accident and now use to my advantage. I do not have years of experience behind me but my wheels turn fast when what I am doing isn't going well.

I have a soon to be three year old son who, like most toddlers, isn't still for a second. Before I bought my digital Rebel I couldn't get a clear shot of him because everything was blurred due to motion. I know you to have a good camera so that is a good thing.

Janel's Reccommendation #1 for photographing balls of energy-- Have a good camera.

#2-- is to take pictures of them doing what they love to do ( and are very good at doing with a natural expression) ........play.

#3--If you have to pose them, have them tell you a story about something important to them while you take "test shots" to "adjust you camera" (wink) I just did a photo shoot of a 5 yr. old future drama major and the best shots were the ones she did not know were the real thing.

#4--Do your homework ahead of time. Take an older, more cooperative child to the park (or wherever) and locate the shots that have good possibilities. This way you are educated about lighting and where you need to be and when. Then, when your subject enters that space, you are ready for the shot.

I don't mean for this to sound like hunting.

Hope this helps. It works for me, I now have a really nice collection of great photos of my three year old.

Janel

Young 'uns
 

Janel, thank you for posting those great ideas for taking photos of young children.

I have been experimenting so much with getting good resource photos that on my last photo shoot of a 'model' that I was paying by the hour, I practiced on my son over and over again until I understood the light before the model arrived. That helped so much, I saved a lot of time when the real model came over.

I recently looked out my window and saw the neighbor's twins outside. Great, I thought, so I grabbed my digital camera and off I was to take some photos. They're not even two yet! I came away from that 'photo shoot', if you can call it that, with no usable photos. Every time I would say one of their names or they would see the camera, they would make a bee line for the camera. Their objective was to get their face 2 inches away from the camera lens. Next time I plan to have them sitting in a chair inside their house. (I can hear laughing out there :) ! Anyway, I'll try that.)

Mary, I too enjoy painting children. I know I read here somewhere on the forum the suggestion of having a mom, or somebody, hold the child. That might be something to consider, if it's a head and shoulders anyway.

It seems like it just takes lots and lots of photos to get a good one. I think you got some great ones of Ben.

Joan

Mary,

The only chance any of us have is to control as many variable as we possibly can. When your subject is an uncontrollable variable, you have to look to those aspects of the formula that you can control.

Find out from the parent what time of the day the child is most fresh and manageable. For most kids this is morning. Don't schedule your shoot twenty minutes after their usual nap time.

The out of doors is nothing but one big variable. Couple that with an unpredictable kid and your degree of success will be totally unpredictable.

Light is the one factor that you should be able to control, eliminate it as a variable. Luckily, this is one of only a few important components of success. If you can't get a grip on this one controllable aspect then your dead meat no matter how old the subject. If you can't figure out a natural light angle then work toward an artificial set up.

Most kids will tolerate some degree of control. It's a matter of getting your work done before you include them into the mix. Work out the lighting on the mother or sister while the subject is free to be his own boss. When you are ready, put the kid in a chair and shoot as many as you can. Hire Billy Crystal to stand behind you, blow a kazoo, set yourself on fire. You can shoot fifty shots in a matter of minutes. If the light is good and the kid is fresh, you'll get something.

When your finished, tell the people that you will evaluate the results and get back to them. Do not let them see the raw footage. After you evaluate, if you only have three that are worthy, then show them three. If you only have one, show them one, if you have none, then do it again.

Control the variables, manage their energy, don't invite amateurs into your decision making process. Do these things and you've got about a fifty fifty chance.

Ah...good idea about practicing the light on Mom first. Such an obvious idea that never crossed my mind.

Over and over I read this sentence on this forum to many members.
"If I were you I would re-shoot these."

Do you know how many moans and groans people give at the thought of doing this again? I realize that for the perfect portrait that they are expecting that this should not be an issue for them. But it is most of the time. Then I end up feeling incompetent for not being able to get it right the first time.

More than likely, they aren't groaning as much as I think they are, but it does make me paranoid to have to disturb someone again. How do you get over that, and what is the best way to approach these situations and make yourself come across as professional instead of some ditz that doesn't know what she is doing (the actual case).

This is such a great thread that touches on so many critical issues to our business. Here's how I see them:

1. Reshooting. Mary you wrote that you don't want to "disturb your clients again" by asking for another shoot. However, they are paying you a fair bit for the portrait so I'm sure they would rather allot another hour to get the photos right. Don't sweat this issue.

2. Planning, planning, planning! Mike and Joan both hit the nail on the head, as have artists like Sharon Knettell in other threads. Go to the location on a separate day, when the model is not there and thoroughly plan everything ahead of time.

3. Lighting is THE essential ingredient. The more I learn about portrait painting and photography, the more I'm finding that to be true.

4. Photographing little ones. Mike, once again, got it right. Hire Billy Crystal to stand behind you. If that's out of your budget, ask the Mom to stand behind you and talk to the child about happy things, ask him questions about things he likes, etc. Don't let her tell him, "Smile, Johhny -- SMILE!" since that is guaranteed to create a frown or a fake smile and an unsuccessful photo session.

5. Letting clients see all the raw photos. I have never done this -- it's just asking for trouble, in my opinion. They will inevitably love a face shot that is badly exposed or for which I have no body or hand shots with the right angle or lighting. Then, all the face shots that WILL work will be less enthralling to them and they will be ultimately disappointed with the final painting. "If only we could have had that shot with his cute little grin," etc etc...... I only show correctly exposed photos that I love and that will work with body, hand, feet, and background photos that I can paint from.

I had a similar client situation to the one you describe, Mary, just this last week. I have been commissioned to paint the three year old brother of the girl in the Flowergirl painting that you may have seen in the critique section. The mother and I had talked about an outdoor setting by the water for him.

Here's all the planning that went into it:

I spent a couple of hours studying similar paintings (full length portraits of little boys by the water) of many artists on SOG whose work I admire. I looked at lighting, posing, clothing, backgrounds, props, etc.

I took three trips to two different parks with my camera, weeks before the shoot was to occur. I knew the best time of day for a three year old was likely mid morning, so I chose parks with water that faced the right direction for where the sun would be at that time of day.

When I went to the parks (at the same time of day when the shoot would happen) I took my tripod and posed myself in more than a dozen different spots. I sat down on the ground so I'd be at kid height and photographed myself with the self timer. I probably took 75 shots that way. I wanted a person in these test shots (me) so I could evaluate how the light fell on a face in each location.

I found the ideal spot beside a big tree trunk with the water in the background. Here's why I thought it was ideal: The tree was on the edge of the forest so the boy would be in a shady place and wouldn't be looking into sun or into a sunlit area. I didn't want him squinting.

Also, having him stand with the tree immediately on the right side of him would block that side of the light so there would be some form to the lighting. I didn't want flat, even shade on his face, I wanted some directionality to the lighting. Remember, he is completely in shade so none of this is harsh direct sun, though. It's even, soft light, mostly coming from the left.

There was still a little light leaking around the far right side of the tree which I wanted to block, though. To solve this problem I brought a large black piece of foam core which I propped on the right side of the tree. No more light leaking in from over there.

I also took many background photos, ahead of time, without a person in the shot. I took many bracketed photos with the correct exposures for the tree (very dark and in the shade) and with different exposures of the lake in the background (very bright, in full sun). Then some more exposures in between, so I could see the relative brightness of these different areas.

I also knew that a child his age might not know what to do with his hands. I went to a toy store and picked out a small rubber baseball for him to hold. I planned on telling him that he would be able to keep it "if he was good".

His mother and I had talked long in advance about what he was to wear, as well, and I had asked her to show me the outfit weeks before the shoot happened.

When the day of the shoot arrived we got right down to business: good time of day for the little guy's mood, perfect lighting, great outfit, baseball in hands, mom behind me cheering him on, etc.

I photographed him for 5 minutes and then gave him a break. I looked at the shots I had taken, saw that we were on track, then called him back for two more five minute sessions. Within twenty minutes we were done and I had shot 150 photos.

The whole session was quick and easy on the kid and easy on the mom. She came away with the impression that I knew exactly what I was doing since she didn't see any of the planning and agonizing over all these issues that had gone on beforehand.

Since all the photos were taken in the same setting, with me shooting from the exact same spot with the tripod, I know I can mix and match at will to get the right combination, to make what I hope will be a great portrait.

I didn't just "know" to do all this right from the start when I began taking reference photos for my work. My first attempts three years ago were truly awful! In the mean time I read everything I could get my hands on about photographing kids, outdoor lighting, choosing locations, etc.

Whew! This is probably the longest post I've ever written!

The main thing I learned from all this? Do the PLANNING.

Oh my goodness. I think I just wrote you an equally lengthy post and for some reason it got lost in cyberspace ;C .

I am short on time at the moment, so I will just say thank you for your reply, I appreciate it.

Live and learn
 

The mother and I have not decided on anything for her portrait yet. But I wanted to "try" the back-lit one. I was 95% done, brought that nice glowing little face up to take a picture to check on the computer. I put it on the dining room table, the phone range, I turn around and here comes one filfthy toddler. :o

Now I have one hazy ruined face, hours down the drain and am looking for the SHOUT.

How frustrating!
 

Oh Mary -

I really feel for you....Kids - we love 'em, but I bet you were "fit to be tied" as my mom used to say.

Funny, I remember that saying being used a lot growing up. :)
My mom was a writer, and I don't think I ever messed up any of her manuscripts but I am sure the difficulties and frustrations in raising kids and practicing your craft are the same in any discipline.

Anyway, I'm so sorry you have to start over. But I bet the second painting will be even better!

Mary,

If it could be any comfort to you, Turner sometimes used kids to start his watercolors. They were especially good to make nonsense scribbles on his paper, and he was equally good to make sense of it.

Allan