When did painting mature?

[Timothy C. Tyler]

I was thinking of starting a poll, but I don't know how. I was wondering when is everyones' opinion to this question;"when did the craft of painting lose the clunk?"

There's a date in my mind, when I see lots of paintings start to be created with good perspective, color, design, form (drawing. I exempt the greats that happened along every so often to confuse the matter. I'm talking about the time when many artists were doing fine work strong with depth and realism that breathed of life. I'm not going to lead the witness, I'm just curious how everyone else feels about this.

(It's also interesting to note how many centuries fine painting lagged behind truly awesome sculpture.)

[Peter Jochems]

Between Giotto and Vermeer the art of painting reached it's highest level of quality, I think. After that there has never been a master as complete as someone like van Eyck, Velazquez or Rembrandt. The average quality of painters was highest in 17th century dutch painting.

Peter

[Timothy C. Tyler]

Not to take issue at all, but when do you think painting first became markedly better than ever before on a general level. The time you mentioned saw several greats Peter but maybe some time prior to that perspective, drawing, color and design broke forth from the art dark ages. When did this happen?-say in Europe anyway?

[Peter Jochems]

In the Renaissance, maybe when the text written by Alberti ('On Painting') became known? It was an inspiration for Renaissance artists, and explained how the rules of perspective worked.

Another time, I think was in Ancient Greece. When modelling in light and shadow was invented, or the invention of the use of the highlight in painting. And it all goes back to Egypt ultimately. What the Greeks did was started in Egypt.

To me a very interesting development are computer generated images like Toy Story, Shreck, Finding Nemo. The increasingly powerful possibilities of computers in this make a logical comparison with the greater possibilities of oil-paint compared to tempera.

It has to do, I think, with technical inventions giving new possibilities and inspiration. The invention of the use of shadows, the invention of the highlight in ancient history. The invention of working in oil, or perspective in the Renaissance.

This, combined with an economic possibility for painters to sell their work for good money to churches or individuals. If painting nowadays was as profitable as web design for example, we would see a totally different art world, I guess.

I would choose the works of Leonardo in the Renaissance (especially his 'Last Supper') as the giant leap painting had to take from Giotto/Masaccio/Verocchio (or early Renaissance) to a mature high-Renaissance-style which made the work of Raphael or the high-Renaissance in general possible.

[Carl Toboika]

Tim,
Are you talking mid fourteen hundreds here, right around Van Eyck's time when things were moving more out of 2d with the use of oil paint?

[Timothy C. Tyler]

Carl, I just wonder when YOU think the work (by several atists) became really much better. I have some personal views that I'll keep to myself for a while.

[Carl Toboika]

Well Tim, I

[Marvin Mattelson]

Painting achieved its full maturity in 1865 when Bouguereau's painting style began its final ascent. No one had ever before or since acheived the level of technical sophistication and sensitive portrayal of the human form.

Of course Bouguereau had the distinct advantage of having seen and learned from the works of the oil painting masters that preceeded him. Obviously they never had the opportunity to learn from him.

[Michele Rushworth]

Some would say the turning point in Western art was when DaVinci discovered how the use of "sfumato" (or smoke, as in smoky soft edges) gave the Mona Lisa an appearance of realism beyond what any of the cut-out figures of pre-Renaissance painting ever achieved.

[Carl Toboika]

You're preaching to the choir, Marvin!

Michelle, you