Does the background recede far enough?

[Karin Wells]

Whew...this is a tough one to straighten out in mere words but I'll try.

My infamous "Royal Robe and Globe" that Peggy shows is my workshop exercise of "the painting that explains everything you need to know about painting in one quick lesson."

I show my short-cut underpainting method here...flat areas of paint approximating the final colors (sort of like a poster) with light and shadow delineated. I used acrylic for this base coat to make it "flat" as it needed to dry before stage 2 and workshop time is short. Oil works too, but requires several coats.

In the underpainting for this picture I used black acrylic (or black gesso) for the black area (under the table) and black + white for the background.

If you paint black oil paint straight from the tube don't expect it to look good...it will be "dead", take forever to dry and always look dull. It is better to use a flat black underpaint in these areas.

Beyond the initial layer in Peggy's example above (i.e., underpainting), black must be built up in thin glaze layers. You can glaze other dark earth colors into the layers of black in order to build it up (i.e., prussian blue, burnt umber) to a sparkling and clear black. You must not use any pigmented colors beyond the first coat (underpainting) or you will get mud.

As to making blue from black + white, you can probably use any black paint that you have handy and here is how it works: The color "blue" is relative. That is, the colors that surround it make it appear blue.

When you surround black + white with earth tones, it will appear blue. If you use modern chemical or "neon" colors, it can look like gray. Elsewhere on this forum, I have listed my "Old Master Earth Palette" and have indicated the glaze colors vs. the opaque colors.

"The Pot and Peach" still life below (sorry for the crummy photo) is an example of a painting done entirely without blue paint. In fact, the background has a lot of yellow ochre and raw sienna painted into the black + white. But you probably wouldn't know unless I told you so.

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Thank you Karin for replying back so soon. I have finished the underpainting last night of Peggy

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Did wash on onion bags and pumpkins with mix of black, white and thalo blue as suggested by Michael G.


Increased highlights on clothing+ lit up face some more, to bring figure forward as suggested by Marvin.

Toned down eggplants with wash of turp, burnt umber and dioxazine purple as recommended by Peggy.

Tried to achieve poetry as suggested by Mr. Weistling.

How is it?

[Enzie Shahmiri]

The highlights on the clothing are not showing too well on the post. Sorry about that.

[Marvin Mattelson]

This is more like what I was proposing.

[Jim Riley]

Enzie,

You have been armed with a lot of very good advice and I have taken more than a few notes for my own selfish needs.

Another consideration, in addition to hue, value, and intensity of color, is the one that should be part of the planning stage. And that is the need to compose in a way that the objects in a background are drawn and painted as though they continue behind the foreground subject. Or to put it another way, the foreground figure should overlap background shapes. This avoids the two dimensional look that occurs when objects are cut out and pieced together. Your objects were drawn and darkened just as they approach the figure in attempt to make them go behind and, instead, it tends to make them appear as isolated, two-dimensional shapes. As objects they tend to begin and end at the edge of the figure. The shapes in the lower right corner that look like they are poking the merchant in the rump will still look discomforting in any new color or value. As big and intense as the pumpkins are, they stay behind the fruit/veggies for the reasons I noted above.

Hope this helps.

Despite the problems it might bring, I like your spirited color approach.

[Enzie Shahmiri]

After looking at Marvin

[Jim Riley]

Enzie,

This is just a quick and crude attempt to show that the pose/composition plays a big role and contributes to the feeling of depth or not. I usually encourage and practice doing thumbnail roughs to help decide layout and composition. I have cropped and retouched a little but the figure now commands more presence and I now feel that the background doesn't have to be doctored as much.

You've been a good sport. Don't feel overwhelmed. A lot has been thrown at you.

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Jim, thank you for taking the time to play with this image. Because of the initial post regarding the copyright issue, I am not able to post the lower portion of the painting. Having him stand full size definitely changes some of the elements. Maybe it was a mistake to post the painting with half of the information missing.

After I wrote my lengthy response I sat there and just looked at the painting. That

[Michael Fournier]

Enzie, I really have general advice more than what you should do in this painting.

If everything is bright and full-strength color, nothing stands out. If your goal was to show the light on the bright colored vegetables and have it look like light, you need dark areas near it to show the light. Without shadow there is no light. Without light you have no form. And too much light kills the form and the effect of the light as well. Not that you do not have light and dark areas, but if you have light shining on a bunch of fruit they cast shadows on other things, and things not in the picture cast shadows on areas of the fruit. And the bunch of fruit as a whole has a light and a dark side.

If you try to put all of it in the light, you get nothing but the appearance of local color, not the color in light and dark and from. Also, to have depth, you must have form. Although you have given form to each individual vegetable you have little form on the bunch.

The bunch should have a light and a dark side. Like a tree painted with each leaf having detail, you must also paint the tree as a whole or it is flat.

In my small modification, I did not really take the time to be accurate to any light source; I was just trying to give an idea of what I meant.
But as you look at the pumpkins in your painting, they do not have much shape as a whole. By showing the shadows of one on the other, and then having a distinct light and dark side, you give them form, and put them in space. The reason your figure seems to sit in the same space as the background is because the background seems flat as well. And that is because the light source you have is not casting shadows that give form. Without form, there is no depth.