Boy in question

[Patt Legg]

Good morning, Julie and Garth.

I woke up thinking about this of course and couldn't wait to read. Well, I appreciate your input again.Following is the exact course that I took:

I scanned the original then cropped the head-I re-sized it to approximately the size that I have on old painting ( in this case it came out 8x10 as you see here in my attachment)--I then actually laid it onto the canvas and traced it as you can see the trace marks on the paperwork. ( I have never traced a portrait in my life) I feel at this time like I am cheating and furthermore, going backwards. Anyway, that is what I did. Now tell me how in the world did that still go wrong? Leave it up to me to do that kind of thng. I see what you are saying and actually my drawing on canvas looked smaller so I actually held it up to my brushwork and it is the same. Now what???

By the way, Garth, how do you OVERLAY each item on each other in Photo-shop? I assume you did that in Photo-shop. I am just now learning how to do some things in it.

Thanks again and please be patient with me. I really hope to learn better now that I know better.

Patt

[Patt Legg]

Opps !!! Not enough coffee this a.m. Now the attachment.

[Grethe Angen]

Dear Pat,
I`d say do not trace. but measure, measure, measure. and
check the angles, measure the outline and the shapes. Do not think in terms of eyes and mouth but try to see only the shapes. Do not trust your eyes at all.this is about making a copy to please your client, remember.:-) wish you the best in this process.

[Alexandra Tyng]

Hi Pat,

I just checked in here this morning and found that a lot has happened in the meantime. That's great! I am so glad you got over the initial sinking feeling and jumped right in.

I sometimes run into problems, too, in a portrait. Occasionally I get the likeness almost right and I paint the head several times over, but each time something is just a little off. That is when I use a grid or some kind of measuring method. It's a way of discovering what is going wrong. Usually, as Julie says, each artist has certain tendencies to distort things in certain ways, If you are conscious of your own tendencies, then it becomes easier to correct them. In other words, drawing a grid can be a good teaching tool, as long as you don't use it as a crutch, only when necessary. So doing this now does not mean you are now labeled a "cheater." You can use this experience to push yourself to the next step, i.e., attend life-drawing sessions or open studios, or try the Barque method. Or just practice drawing your husband and friends.

I want to suggest one other thing: when you do your monochrome study, try not to put in too much value contrast and detail. At this point, you should not be worrying about the shine on the lips and the divisions between his teeth. Indicate the teeth as a block of light value. Indicate the eyes without making hard, dark lines. Tone down your light/dark contrast in the skin and try not to exaggerate the highlights. You might feel that you have to do these things to insure the likeness, but actually these exaggerated value shifts and fine details detract from the likeness. They also are unnecessary because you will be painting over them. In addition, when you work up a drawing/underpainting to that extent it becomes difficult to paint over.

[Patt Legg]

Grethe and Alexandra, thanks again. I would like to send you to the following link as to the monochrome study. It is not this artist that I study under necessarily but use his guidance occasionally as I look often here on the Forum for other methods. But I want to say that I indeed have been taught by others in this technique and it is absolute detail that I have subscribed to doing. Now having said that-- I feel absolutely that my drawing[B] must[/B] to be very precise or (as you stated Alex, it would be very difficult to paint over). So my problems and they seem to be many, are those of accurate drawing . I really need to draw more often and this I realize.

I will try to do better and Grethe, the measuring is definitely a must. How odd that measuring is something that I stress in my teaching of painting ( still life , I do not teach portraiture) Go figure.

Ok I am off to the easel once again. Thanks for your patience on this and I apologize for taking up so much time and space on this Oil Critique section.

Check out the link below please. I assume some of you already are familiar with Antonov's work, whether or not you agree is not the question.

Best Regards

Patt



http://www.antonovart.com/tech.html

[Garth Herrick]

[QUOTE=Patt Legg]
By the way, Garth, how do you OVERLAY each item on each other in Photo-shop? I assume you did that in Photo-shop. I am just now learning how to do some things in it.
/QUOTE]

Hi Patt,

Good work! I agree with Alex and Grethe. It's not cheating, and you won't always want to use a grid or trace ( I certainly don't want to often), but these are tools to aid in visualization and internalization of the imagery. Look, if it was acceptable for Thomas Eakins to use a projector and measue to death 130 years ago, then one should not feel guilty following in his tradition today when needed. Even if you grid, trace or project, you STILL have to paint it, and it still requires considrable skill and practice to do this well. As long as, as an artist, one observes from life too, one should be in good stead with these occasional aids. I myself have gone absurdly high tech at times, and I've gained much from doing so; interestingly I feel more drawn to work from life now. As Alex says, as long as one does not use these tools and techniques as a constant crutch, there is nothing to be ashamed of. As Grethe suggests, measuring a lot helps you to see more important nuances and relationships.

Sometimes one can draw better and capture the shapes and relationships when seeing things from a different context or viewpoint. Drawing a portrait upside-down could help in this regard. Also by checking one's progress in a mirror from time to time, one can easily see and react to something being really off in the drawing or proportions.

The "overlay" you ask of is a GIF format animation, indeed done in Photoshop. I do not know which versions of Photoshop include Animation, but I am using CS2. If you do not have this animation tool, then you still can overlay another Layer of a second image, which can be very useful. By using the slider to adjust Layer Opacity, you can find the comparison you want.

Garth

[Grethe Angen]

Originally Posted by Patt Legg

I will try to do better and Grethe, the measuring is definitely a must. How odd that measuring is something that I stress in my teaching of painting ( still life , I do not teach portraiture) Go figure.





http://www.antonovart.com/tech.html

Pat, untill very recently I thought that measuring the approx. placement proportions would do. I learned that to get a likeness one will have to measure everything at least twice, and not trust the eye. I guess I have to tell my self this many times in the future. When it comes to cheating I`d say we cheat ourselves when we trust the eye only.
your painting of this boy will be a success.

[Patt Legg]

Thanks again Grethe, especially for your vote that "this painting will be a success". I promise I am giving it my utmost to do just that. When I first wrote in the Creative forum, I was so very discouraged.

As stated prior, after the umber, I always go into the dead color, in a grayish , greenish layers. So I am posting it here once again to show it. I think better but still a problem with teh mouth particularly. Any other comments are useful and will be considered.

Patt

[Alexandra Tyng]

Patt,

This is looking much, much better. I hope you're feeling encouraged, as you should be.

As you mentioned, there are some problems with his mouth. The upper lip is too curvy. If you put the reference photo and the painting side-by-side and move your eyes rapidly back and forth between the two, you will see the difference. You've also pinched in the lower lip a bit near the corners of the mouth. The nostrils appear crooked in relation to each other. The ears should not narrow as they go up into the hair.

Also, watch the values. Already there are problems that will stay with you throughout if you do not tackle them now and keep watching for them to reappear. The eyelid creases are much too dark and hard. The neck is too dark and the shadow doesn't match the shadow in the photo, which means it is not consistent with the lighting in the photo. Thus it looks dirty. The ears pop out because they are too light. They should be the same value as the sides of the face. It looks as though you've given an exaggerated plumpness to the lips by adding too much shine/contrast. when someone is smiling, their lips stretch and thin out, so the plump appearance is not appropriate and may be adding to the problem you are having with the mouth.

These are just some things to keep in mind. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

[Thomasin Dewhurst]

Dear Pat

This is a very nice beginning. It is soft and warm and cheerful. You have a very nice sense of the slight plumpness in the boy's face, and it's a very nice likeness.

With the mouth, I think that the bottom lip works well. You have a nice sense of it stretching over the bottom teeth and the edges are softened in places so that the bottom lip looks part of the skin of the face.

The curves on the underside of the top lip, though, are a little too exaggerated - if you compare them to the photo. They need to be straightened out a bit. And there is some space around the teeth where both lips join at the edges (where there are the gaps between the teeth at the sides of the mouth). It is indicated by a darkness. I wouldn't paint each tooth and the gaps between in detail at the edge, though, but just suggest the space by softening the edges (i.e no sharp lines or edges). And also by bringing the tone of the white of the teeth at the side of the mouth down to a darker colour too would help suggest that space.

Also the lips look a little too wide. They are, perhaps, not too wide, but the sharpness of the edges where the lips join make a kind of arrow effect, which makes your eyes move outwards too much: thus the feeling of the lips being too wide.