How much 'negative' space is too much?

[Joan Breckwoldt]

I am wondering about the negative space around the subject in a portrait. How much space is too much? I understand it's up to the individual artist, and even what the painting is trying to convey. But in a traditional 3/4 portrait, how much is too much? I've read about putting the head 2" from the top of the canvas. Though I just spent some time with an Andrew Wyeth book and in one of his portraits, the head and shoulders filled the bottom half of the canvas and the top half was negative space. Very interesting.

I suppose anything goes, but I would love to hear any input on this. If we're talking about a painted head that is about 6 to 6 1/2" for a child, does this fit better on a 16"x20" or a 20"x24" canvas? Would a larger canvas give it too much negative space, assuming the same 6 1/2" head? I'm going to post a photo of what I'm going to paint, it's not the best photo, it's blurry, but you get the idea. And the cat (!) will take some work to get right, but this is the POSE I'm talking about.

thank you all,

Joan

[Alexandra Tyng]

Hi Joan,

I think you hit on the answer when you said that each painting is different, and it depends on what you want to convey. There is no formula!

When I begin a portrait I always start with a concept. I decide what I want to say visually, and an idea begins to form in my mind. Either I'm painting from life, or I'm using photo references to compose the painting, or a combination of the two plus preliminary sketches. Let's assume you are using a photo because that's what it looks like you are doing.

I first decide on one photo to use as a general compositional reference. This photo has the general pose the way I want it. (I might use others for the head, for the cat, the fingers, etc.) I decide where I want the borders to be, and block out the rest of the photo or extend the photo edge. It's important to leave extra space on all sides. I often extend the background color by using pieces of reject photos. That way I can play with the borders, moving them in and out until I decide how much space I want around my subject. Next, I decide on the head size. I measure the head in the photo and the length of the entire photo. I use the proportion of head length/photo length, cross-multiply with the head length I want in the portrait (6.5"), and fill in the missing dimension, which will be the length of the canvas. Then I figure out the width of the canvas by creating another l/w proportion. I then stretch my own canvas.

If you would rather use a pre-stretched canvas, you can start with the proportion of head length (6.5") to canvas length, then see how the width of the canvas compares proportionally to the width of your reference photo. I mess with the width of the reference to see if I can get a pleasing composition. If I can't, then I do not use a pre-stretched canvas.

What I'm saying is that really it is much better to arrive at your canvas size by making a conceptual/compositional decision rather than trying to determine an ideal canvas size--which doesn't exist.

I like your reference photo a lot--beautiful light, and that green turned out well. It does make beautiful cool shadows, in the cat, too.

Alex

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Alexandra,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I understand all the math that you're talking about! It's exactly what I do, except I, as you said, am dealing with prestretched canvas. I did stretch a few some years ago, but that was putting the cart before the horse. I need to spend my time practicing my painting, not stretching canvas. So for now, I'm using prestretched.

I had a 16" x 20" for this portrait, but today went and got a 20" x 24". I think there is going to be too much space around her on that size canvas. Sometimes 2" abolve the head seems too little, but then 10" would be too much. I guess I'm trying to push the limits to see how much space I can put around the figure without the figure seeming lost.

I really like your method of deciding on the canvas size in a smaller scale, then enlarging all your measurements. I go to Kinko's and make enlargements of my photos (200 % today!) and then come home and lay them out on the different canvas sizes. Your way sounds easier!

Yesterday I went into my daughters room with a measuring tape and measured her face, chin to hairline. I had just read a long post on the forum about head size. My daughter says "What are you doing?" and I told her I was measuring her head for her portrait. (I wanted to make sure my painting was less than life size). And she answered, "only in this house!". I guess measuring your kids' head isn't something that happens in every home!

I will play with the borders/negative space and see just how much is too much. This thread started because on another thread Linda Brandon mentioned that she liked a lot of space around her figures, if I understood her correctly. That's when I started thinking about the "how much is too much" question.

thanks,

Joan

[Joan Breckwoldt]

I am wondering if I should include more of the model and cat? My first inclination is not too, since adding more of the cat and my daughters lower body don't add anything to the overall picture. Any thoughts?

This is the uncropped version of my reference photo.

thank you,

Joan

[Lacey Lewis]

Hi there!

I'd love to get more into this conversation, but I have little time so my input will be limited.

About the 1st photo you posted: I don't feel that there is too much negative space there, but I do not like the poition of the cat. It seems to weigh that area of the portrait, and is distracting the way it is cropped. But, I could see this one working just fine without the cat, if she just had her arms relaxed and meeting in front of her off the picture plane.

The 2nd picture is almost there, I'd just add a little more space so that the cat isn't cut off. Then, the cat will be better balanced by your daughter, and you will have pleasing negative space on the top and bottom of the picture. See Chris Saper's "Cotton's Kid" to get an idea of what I mean.

Lovely model, I love the green color, can't wait to see the portrait, I hope to get back to or at least read more of this thread later!

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Lacey,

Thank you for your post. Hmm, I see what you mean about the cat being cropped in the first one. I didn't want the cat to draw too much attention, I was thinking he would be a minor part of the portrait. He would have to be a white cat! But if I can't crop him successfully, then I've got the whole cat in the photo.

It's not absolutely necessary that the cat be in the painting, though I would prefer it, as I'm sure my daughter would. But not to the detriment of the painting.

I think you mean to pull down the border on the second one? More space around the bottom of the photo?

Thank you again,

Joan