Many Paths - The TRUTH about Underpainting - Page 2

Linda Brandon · 12-01-2002, 11:02 PM

Dear Michael,

This is a beautiful painting, and I enjoyed seeing how it progressed. It demonstrates your logic and reasoning for paint application better than words alone could have accomplished. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Linda

Michael Georges · 12-02-2002, 09:55 AM

You people are all key components of what makes this a great forum. Thanks for your kind words.

Tim: We all eschew what we believe is true for us and has value for us. Thereby, even though I may not do it much anymore, I will always talk up the worth of underpainting in monochrome because it taught me so much about value and creating a 3d impression on a 2d surface. I think Bill's method is much faster and IMO, better because you start quite loose and refine as you go. However, it also requires that you really understand value and color in order to do it well. I don't believe I would have taken to it so easily if I did not have the experience and understanding gained from the many verdaccio and grisaille underpaintings I have done over the past 4 years.

Sharon Knettell · 12-02-2002, 09:57 AM

Marvin, I have had the benefit of seeing Karin's beautiful luminous paintings in person as we are both members of the Copley Society.

Karin studied under two of the most accomplished figurative painters, Numael and Shirley Pulido. They, as well as Karin, are dedicated to the craftmanship of painting.

I was eagerly awaiting each post as it progressed. I came back from the holidays to find it truncated. I do not always agree with some of the professional's procedures but I at least like to hear them through.

I felt that Karin had put an enormous amount of time and effort in that thread and she should have been allowed to finish her explanation before she was challenged.

Sincerely

Renee Price · 12-02-2002, 10:25 AM

To those of us who want to be professionals:

I think the underpainting controversy has been propetuated by those of us who are struggling to learn and are eagerly seeking ways to improve. The truth is, that we should not try to immitate someone else's style. If you like Karen's approach, try it with a painting. If you like Michael's, Bill's, Marvin's, Peggy's, Chris', (and whoever I may have missed in this post my deepest apologies), then try them. Use what works for you and throw out the rest. Practice makes perfect and only by trying different methods will we find what works for each of us. Another great way to learn, which has been posted several times, is copying old master paintings. Practice, practice, practice, and never be satisfied. Maybe one day we'll will be the ones having discussions on which way is best!

Renee Price

Marvin Mattelson · 12-02-2002, 12:15 PM

Sharon,

I don't know who it was that severed the thread. I too would have liked it to play out. I too applaud Karin's great generosity in giving of herself and her time. I never intended to negate what she said (how many ways must I state this?) I was only trying to warn others it was A way not THE only way!!

Michael,

I'm a little curious. I'm sure you recall that we had previously butted heads on the under painting issue and since now you are shifting your position and trying this new approach, with excellent results I might add, I have a question. Have you also shifted your stance and are you also incorporating a new painting medium as well?

To whom it may concern,

I have over thirty years of experience as a working professional. I have received a multitude of awards in shows juried by many of today's finest artists (including the creme de la creme of portrait artists). My students alone have won tens of thousands of dollars in prize money. The Metropolitan Museum of Art is in the process of buying one of my paintings for their permanent collection. The Art Renewal Center informed me yesterday that I have been accepted as one of their ARC Approved Ateliers and I will soon be listed on their site as such. I could go on and on but I hope you get my point. If you think I know not what I talk about, it

Sharon Knettell · 12-02-2002, 12:49 PM

Marvin, I am pleased you won all those awards, you must have deserved them. Karin has totted up quite a few herself, including an ASOPA Best of Show. However, this is not the mantle to display our awards and see who has the most. People should be allowed to judge the merit of the work, regardless of the artists accolades. If we allowed awards to be an important arbiter of quality, many brilliant artists would have been discarded and "Piss Christ" would be our inspiration.

I have personally have over 30 years as an artist, including being an illustrator. I have participated in the annual Society of Illustrator shows as well as done movies posters.

What I personally objected to was the fact that your objections muddied the water of Karin's thread, making it difficult for her to continue with any clarity. I generally like to hear people out before I challenge them.

I found it to be a valuable thread; I was interested and as a professional artist would have appreciated the opportunity to judge for myself.

Sincerely,

Michael Georges · 12-02-2002, 02:41 PM

Okie, we are again getting a little off topic or at least into the sticker bushes again with this discussion.

It is inevitable that somewhere in the course of trying to communicate with each other that we will committ certain faux pas. I think this one has played itself out on our stage and we should move on with talking about underpainting.

Marvin: The Covino method which I learned had me using liquin or Galkyd in the underpainting and a medium based largely on Damar and Venice Turpentine for color. I used it, but did not like it much as it really dragged on the brush after about 30 minutes.

I have since changed to using Marogers medium (black oil and double mastic) for my primary medium. I swapped out my turpentine for oil of spike lavender. I understand the risks that Marogers can pose if it is not formulated correctly - I believe my stuff is formulated very well. I love how it handles. It stays open and wonderfully workable for most of a day and is touch dry the next day. Strokes are really smooth and it dries with a slight gloss which I find appealing.

Marvin Mattelson · 12-02-2002, 03:05 PM

Michael,

Sorry to go off course again but here I go. We

Peggy Baumgaertner · 12-02-2002, 03:09 PM

Lovely painting, Michael. Thank you for posting the step by step. There are many wonderful pearls in it.

Peggy

Cynthia Daniel · 12-02-2002, 03:31 PM

Marvin,

The quality of your work is definitely exemplary and more than worthy of the honors you have received. However, I hate to see this thread go "down the drain" as did the other one.

Language can be a difficult thing at times and all of us have times when our meaning or intent is misunderstood. Likely you did not intend the impression given in the thread that was closed, however more than one person felt you were denigrating Karin's methods and this is the cause of the tension occurring there and now here.

I suggest that we call a truce and get on to more rewarding posts. How's that for a deal?