The dreaded foursome composition!

[Rebecca Willoughby]

Being from south Louisiana, I know what Alicia means by "bad weather". I too had to reschedule a couple of shoots. I would have loved to just have overcast. Instead we had Hurricane Isidore followed the next week by Hurricane Lili. I think Alicia is also dealing with the "surprise for mom" factor. We all walk that thin line of keeping the job (cause we need the money), and painting it right (cause we don't want a piece out there with our name on it that we are not happy with). I for one love what I do, but sometimes there is a lot of stress. Frank W. Benson's work is marvelous Sharon. It would be great way of handling such a painting. "The Summer of 1909" is lovely. It also has about the same lighting as these reference photos. Having seen Alicia's work, I think that she can handle it.

Rebecca

[Alicia Kornick]

Thanks Sharon for all the good advice. The "bad weather" was, as Rebecca stated in her post, two hurricanes back to back. I looked at Benson's work and love it. I have offered another photo shoot, but will have to work with these. The Mom is unaware of this as it is to be a suprise and the Dad travels a good deal. He had to sneak them out of the house early Satruday morning, so this may be my only shot at it.

The photos are clearer than they appear in the post. I understand what you are telling me about setting high standards, I worry about that constantly but in this case, I think I have to make the best out of what I have.

Rebecca: Thanks for your vote of confidence. I value your opinion a great deal.

[Sharon Knettell]

Alicia, notwithstanding Ms. Willoughby's confidence in you, a subject such as this, if not handled deftly, could indeed be "Mom's surprise".

They all have the feeling of being shot for a brochure for a vacation spot.

As to replacing the boys head with a smiling one, why? Do all children have to be grinning loons?

Is this an important commission? Why proceed with inferior material that does not completely inspire you with confidence? Cannot the husband be reasoned with to do a reshoot? Can you not tell him that circumstance (i.e. hurricanes) will affect your ability to do your best work? Cannot you present a framed study at Christmas? Multiple figure portraits are very difficult to get right in the best of circumstances. I did one with 2 figures; I had to shoot it 3 times before I got what I wanted.

I am not familiar with Ms. Willoughby's work. However she seems from her post to have the years of knowledge and the depth of experience to best guide you in this undertaking.

There is a fine line we all have to take in this business. We just have to decide which side to stay on.

I would not work from this material, but then I may not have the skill or knowledge of you or Ms. Willoughby.

Good Luck

[Michael Fournier]

My only advice is do not be bound by your reference photos for composition. That is not what they are for. You are free to move figures around change the position of hands. You can use a figure in one that is in a better position. Remember you are not a portrait photographer so you are not bound by the image the camera captures. Take your reference and draw some compositions using the photos as reference. Then once you have a nice composition at the sketch stage take it to a more complete sketch. Then do some studies of the heads and maybe the hands if you have to change them for better expression.

Also, you can take other photos under similar lighting of hands as reference. This is a very complex painting, and to pull it off without doing all the necessary preliminary work would be very difficult at best. I feel you have some good reference to get a start with. And you have the drawing and painting skills to make this a very interesting painting, so don't take shortcuts and end up with a painting that is less then you are capable of.

So get drawing. Then once you have the composition you like then do a re-shoot if need be. You will probably find you need reference you don't have so I would plan on it.

I have never done a portrait like this but my illustration background and the planning demanded by art directors in some was helped me develop a system. It always starts with a bunch of sketches way before I ever take a single photo. And usually I then do a few more detailed sketches to submit to the AD. And once a composition is approved I am bound to that. And any changes I must resubmit for approval. Until I know what the composition is going to be, I have no idea what I need for reference. For illustration work, I often had professional photography done and their time is money. So you don't waste a photographer's time taking shots you are not going to use. And you do not want to have to call them back to take shots you need but did not get.

I take most of my reference shots myself now, but I still start planning the composition before the photo session. As a portrait painter, you have much more control. You can change whatever you want at any point. So even if you have finalized a composition, but later see a way it could be better, you don't need an AD to approve the change. These images give you a lot of choices. I can't see from the images posted if they have enough information for likeness on all the figures but I assume that the originals are of a much higher resolution and offer more detail. So do a lot of drawing I am sure you can not only pull this off, but make it a flagship piece in your portfolio that will lead to more multi-figure commissions. What joy - right - just think you can look forward to more headaches like this.

As for what the father said he wants that is his minimum request. You do not strike me as a person that wants to do just enough. Exceed his expectations and make this a painting you can be proud of not just now but years from now. Remember we can recognize a person across the street that we know. Likeness is not all in the details so even in this painting you should strive to capture a likeness. I wish you all the best on this.

[Michael Fournier]

Is this an important commission? Why proceed with inferior material that does not completely inspire you with confidence? Can not the husband be reasoned with to do a reshoot. Can you not tell him that circumstance (ie. hurricanes) will affect your ability to do your best work. Cannot you present a framed study at Christmas? Multiple figure portraits are very difficult to get right in the best of circumstances. I did one with 2 figures, I had to shoot it 3 times before I got what I wanted.

I would not work from this material, but then I may not have the skill or knowledge of you or Ms. Willoughby.

Sharon, you don't hold back telling us what you really think. Just kidding! I feel, Sharon, you are fully qualified to make this judgement. I also must agree with you that this is a very difficult piece. And Alicia really should do as much planning and get as much reference as she needs if this is going to be a success.

[Sharon Knettell]

Alicia,

It has been hinted that some of my comments are blunt. I have been where you are, faced with an important commission wihout adequate material. I have never been happy with the results.

From the little I have see you are a sensitive and capable photographer able to get the results you need. Groups, however, are a horse of a different color. That is why I mentioned photo books on groups. I think it would be a disservice to you and your career to encourage you to go forward, with this material alone. A foursome is an incredibly difficult thing to pull off. Try not to be intimidated by your clients or the circumstances. I checked out your photo abilities before my last post. I felt it was too bad that you did not have the opportunity to do your best. A couple of simple reflectors would help with such a large group.

Mr. Fournier's comments as to its planning and design are very helpful.

Sincerely,

[Alicia Kornick]

Sharon,

I realize that you are much more experienced in artistic endeavors than I. I won't elaborate on your last post, just suffice it to say that your remarks did not go unnoticed and yes, the tone was rather blunt.

As for the photos, I am to meet with the client this week to go over them. Before I did portraits, I did landscapes and feel comfortable with that venue. I will try to get another shoot if possible with the kids and me. I do get nervous when the parent is looking over my shoulder. If that is not possible, I will do sketches with the references I have. I know that good reference is paramount and can understand your insistance about it. I also like sunny landscapes ala Benson (thanks for the website).

I am not trying to argue your opinion and do value what you have to say. Your career in art is impressive and you bring to this forum valuable insight, hindsight and knowledge.

After taking into consideration your comments, Mr. Fournier's and Ms. Willoughby's (who has also won numerous national awards in design), I hope to have a painting that won't be a "Mom's Surprise".

Sincerely,

[Sharon Knettell]

Alicia, good for you!

I know my post was blunt! If I could relate all the horrors of my career we would be here all day. I have been in difficult situations with obscenely rich, bullying clients. It is absolutely, unbelievably, terrifying. They often just want to use you as the paintbrush for their internal pictures.

Keeping the vision you have for the picture is very difficult when the client makes it untenable with unreasonable demands or timetables.Your personal vision is the most important part of the work, more important than the composition, the color or the likeness, no matter what I or anyone else has to say.

I, like Mr. Fournier, have had a lot of experience working with multiple figures and integrating them into a final piece. I did work in the past for all the major magazines and movie posters. The design element itself takes a great deal of time and effort.

I have the utmost confidence that you will do a great job! Anybody who is a surgical nurse should have a great eye!

Sincerely,