Visitors' poll

I am a lapsed artist who has not had much time, due to work and family constraints (chronically ill child), to paint. In my younger days, was a serious art student who put a lot of time into drawing but never was able to finish a painting to my satisfaction. Drawn from live model for quite a few years, but suffered "painters block" when it came to painting. A lot of good starts, though! Thank you for your wonderful site! I do lurk and consider many of the artists on this site talented and generous teachers. I have learned much from this site... some of the member's websites are mini painting courses on line, i.e. Tony Ryder, Marvin Mattelson, Beth Schott and many others. Thank you. Until I have I have time and energy to continue painting, your site has kept my spirits up.

This web site is confusing and not visually centered. It seems like it was designed by a mechanical engineer and not anyone involved in the visual arts. May I suggest that you research other more friendly web sites.

Also, the concept that this is a web site for "professional" portrait painters is misleading. What does professional mean? If it truly means someone to earns a true living through professional portrait painting, you definitely don't need a website. All three hundred professional portrait painters, if that many, could correspond by email.

May I suggest that you open up your website to portrait painters - in general and not just "professionals" and do away with the idea of having a jury select members. Come on, that is a bit haughty. Further, submitting art work to a juror is demeaning. I have entered art shows and received awards for paintings that did not make it in other art shows. Judging art is not objective even though art teachers and art jurors like to think it is. It is an individual's subjective cogent based upon so many factors that no two people can agree. And thank goodness. That is what art is all about an individual experience. Of course there is trashy art, but even that requires a second or third look, as hard as it may be to do.

Thanks for allowing a forum for gathering information about yourselves.

I guess they may be thousands of artists out there who would not be allowed membership or if they are, what difference does it mean to have a juried entrance requirement.

Since your goal is to be a commercial success (or why the ads?), I think you need to redefine your membership requirements.

Thanks for asking for opinions as to why your membership does not increase.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This web site is confusing and not visually centered. It seems like it was designed by a mechanical engineer and not anyone involved in the visual arts. May I suggest that you research other more friendly web sites.

Also, the concept that this is a web site for "professional" portrait painters is misleading. What does professional mean? If it truly means someone to earns a true living through professional portrait painting, you definitely don't need a website. All three hundred professional portrait painters, if that many, could correspond by email.

May I suggest that you open up your website to portrait painters - in general and not just "professionals" and do away with the idea of having a jury select members. Come on, that is a bit haughty. Further, submitting art work to a juror is demeaning. I have entered art shows and received awards for paintings that did not make it in other art shows. Judging art is not objective even though art teachers and art jurors like to think it is. It is an individual's subjective cogent based upon so many factors that no two people can agree. And thank goodness. That is what art is all about an individual experience. Of course there is trashy art, but even that requires a second or third look, as hard as it may be to do.

Thanks for allowing a forum for gathering information about yourselves.

I guess they may be thousands of artists out there who would not be allowed membership or if they are, what difference does it mean to have a juried entrance requirement.

Since your goal is to be a commercial success (or why the ads?), I think you need to redefine your membership requirements.

Thanks for asking for opinions as to why your membership does not increase.

I'm also unregistered but like the fact that this portrait forum has a juried selection process. As a result, the contributions of members are very focused and most of the time informative. There is a website out there, Wet Canvas, that might be of interest to you. As far as I know, that website does not have a special selection process, but as a result contributions are less interesting to me (=a portrait painter seeking to learn from professionals and semi-professionals).

My skills are not good enough yet to warrant membership -- but I am very appreciative to all of you for the information you so generously share on this site and I wouldn't change a thing about the standards you've set. The material is informative and incredibly helpful to a beginner who really wants to improve yet doesn't have access to portrait classes on a regular basis.

I've spent hours on your site studying the material for clues as why my work isn't turning out the way I want, learning about painters and their different styles and trying some of your experiments to push my skills. As a result, I'm doing more work and getting better. One day I'll be at a level where I feel confident enough to apply and then I'll feel like I've earned the right to be a part of this marvelous site.

Thank You

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This web site is confusing and not visually centered. It seems like it was designed by a mechanical engineer and not anyone involved in the visual arts. May I suggest that you research other more friendly web sites.

Also, the concept that this is a web site for "professional" portrait painters is misleading. What does professional mean? If it truly means someone to earns a true living through professional portrait painting, you definitely don't need a website. All three hundred professional portrait painters, if that many, could correspond by email.

May I suggest that you open up your website to portrait painters - in general and not just "professionals" and do away with the idea of having a jury select members. Come on, that is a bit haughty. Further, submitting art work to a juror is demeaning. I have entered art shows and received awards for paintings that did not make it in other art shows. Judging art is not objective even though art teachers and art jurors like to think it is. It is an individual's subjective cogent based upon so many factors that no two people can agree. And thank goodness. That is what art is all about an individual experience. Of course there is trashy art, but even that requires a second or third look, as hard as it may be to do.

Thanks for allowing a forum for gathering information about yourselves.

I guess they may be thousands of artists out there who would not be allowed membership or if they are, what difference does it mean to have a juried entrance requirement.

Since your goal is to be a commercial success (or why the ads?), I think you need to redefine your membership requirements.

Thanks for asking for opinions as to why your membership does not increase.

It seems you've made the mistake of thinking that the Forum is the web site. It is not. It is simply a contribution to those who want to be involved and is not a money making venture. Ads are there to help offset the costs of hosting, the annual license for the Forum software, the spellchecker and costs to pay someone when the software is upgaded. For some reason, people seem to think there are no costs involved in running this type of thing.

The Forum was always meant to reflect the main site, which is about professional portrait painters. Some seem to think my Forum should be all things to all people. I have no such obligation. Nor do I beg for or crave more membership. I just was curious as to why many lurked and did not join, that's all.

The jury process is there to keep the learning content at a level that would be useful for professionals or those who are well along on that path.

I beg to differ that a professional does not need a web site - or perhaps I should say would benefit from a web site. If nothing else, it saves their valuable time because they can refer people to their site instead of having to do a mailing.

But, perhaps you should ask Michele Rushworth about her web site - which brought her a portrait commission of the governor of her state and from that she moved on to paint the governor of Nevada. And, those artists that I've contacted regarding other possible commissions, I think would differ with your view.

As far as the Forum being confusing and not visually centered, I have no clue what you mean. I have gotten no one else complaining about such issues.

You are missing the sense of community that is created by a Forum such as this and it's obvious this is not for you.

I very much appreciate the point made respect the jury process regards people posting who do not have basic drawing skills within their grasp and hence the policy. However I think the Forum misses a trick. Steven Sweeney's sight-size method is the first repeatable stepped process, in my view of all the library books, etc. I've seen over the years, that gets even close to taking a structured studied approach to drawing and the articles on tone are fantastic. That article has inspired me to take a path to achieving proficiency of that technique and Steven's encouragement in his language has helped to do that as I know it has for others. I also hear that passion in Mischa's dialogue. So your site can help people who are not pros achieve their ambitions. I'm not sure that I agree with the entry criteria of seriously pursuing a career in portraiture, surely the gift you share is for helping those of sufficient interest to progress their ambitions in portraiture if simply to achieve a high quality even as a semi-pro or indeed amateur. Whilst that sounds a little negative I can assure you that I have a great deal of pleasure and value from this site regardless of the policies and I can only thank the membership for sharing as they do and spending the time that they do doing that. I do intend to submit in the near future and hope that I am accepted in my desire to improve my artistic skills for the pleasure of others and indeed earn money from it and give up the day job!

Best Regards
Robert Walker

I tried to register and was refused, which I couldn't help but find insulting. I'm a professional artist and regular contributor to several other fora. I'm also a member of my local art guild's Artist Review Panel, so I understand the jurying process and the fact that rejection is not usually a personal matter to the juror. I feel bad about having to reject artists too.
I rarely visit this forum because it's frustrating to see people that I know having a discussion and not being allowed to join in.

I do appreciate this one time opportunity to be heard.

Respectfully,
Todd Cooper

The fact that there are often as many as 100 times as many guests reading threads on this Forum as members attests to the fact that there's something here worth having a look at. There's a great deal of worthwhile material elsewhere, too, but here there's a focus, and you won't usually have to wade through 30 way-to-go posts in a technical or instructional thread before you get to the next substantial offering.

For what it's worth, this analogy regarding the application process for participating in this Forum. I work for a company that last week sold off a small part of its operation. It's a publishing company, once a book publisher, now 98% electronic (Internet, CDs, DVDs, and such). The "small part" of the operation that was sold was a college text division, still publishing books, and it simply didn't fit within the mission of the company anymore. There was NOTHING else wrong with it, as evidenced by the fact that this very small element in this huge corporation just sold for over 7 billion dollars.

Similarly, not being juried into this Forum as a participant doesn't mean that an applicant may not in fact be a magnificent artist, perhaps wildly successful, and teaching many classes. It just means that the work actually submitted with the application -- which is the entirety of what the administrators know about you -- didn't "fit" the mission of this Forum. Sometimes the applicant simply isn't ready. Sometimes the applicant's work is great, but isn't in the vein of what this Forum is about. What it's about is thoughtfully stated at the top of the page every time you open up this Forum and see the statement of purpose and interest for the Forum.

A feeling of "insult" is painful from both sides, and certainly is never the intention here. There could be no rational motivation to inflict insult. There are other forums that get off on that, but this one doesn't.

It's simply a site dedicated to the highest levels of excellence in portraiture and in the training of dedicated and disciplined artists to achieve that level of work. It doesn't make a dime off of it. There are no awards and little prestige. Everyone does it for his or her own reasons, but there are sure a lot of other ways that top artists could spend their time. That many spend time offering something back here is something worth capitalizing on, as evidenced by the fact that when I signed on recently, there were 2 members and 103 guests reading the Forum posts.

Principles before personalities, as they say.

[Cynthia Daniel]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The fact that there are often as many as 100 times as many guests reading threads on this Forum as members attests to the fact that there's something here worth having a look at...

Wow, what a thoughtful and appreciated response.

And, yes, the Board does hate rejecting applicants.

[Mischa Milosevic]

To be honest, I have not had time to go through all the posts in this thread but do think a word or two, on my part, would not hurt. Actually, I hope that by sharing my though, in regard to the forum, I may benefit someone.

I try to be a person of but a few words. Still I try to convey my thoughts the best I can with the limited palette of words. It has been my personal observation that most on this forum have had their moments of ups and downs. These could be moments of personal struggle or an encounter of verbal misunderstanding. What ever the case it is a part of life that nudges each one of us.

I have also observed, the short time that I have been here, that individuals join to receive and many have also to give. What ever the case in question it is good to hear and it is obvious to see that the forum has contributed as well as benefited. As in any situation there is always room for correction and improvement and in my humble opinion I see Cynthia doing her best to grow in this respect. This section or thread the Visitir's poll is a small indication of that. Sure each has a personal agenda why they do something but the generosity should always prevail.

I personally appreciate all that the generosity I have received on this forum and find that the more I give the more I receive.

Thank you to my new friends and my not so friends. My sincere best to all and what ever your path may you find what you are looking for