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Old 02-19-2006, 03:42 PM   #81
Joy Thomas Joy Thomas is offline
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Intimidated by Money




Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon Knettell
It is a very delicate balance the artist has to negotiate between the client and him or herself . Often the artist is poor and needs the commission badly. This puts the artist on the defensive both artistically and financially. I have noticed that we often explain our fees ad infinitum, as if we ourselves are guilty of charging SUCH an exorbitant fee. We all to often think it is a large fee vis-a-vis our own perspective. We often quake inwardly (at least I do) when coming in contact with extreme wealth, I don't mean Mercedes, I mean Bentleys and Rolls. Just give them the fee as confidently as you can, try NOT to bargain, it makes you look needy.
As always Sharon, your observations are always right on the money (oh! please do pardon the pun).

I must say, I wonder why artists are so nervous around people with what country folks call "folding money". I have a few quotes that help me keep perspective during my own meager business transactions:

Will Rogers (or was it Mark Twain?) once said "Rich people are very different from everyone else...they have more money."
I can't remember who said this one but it always makes me laugh and prevents me from acting subservient, "If I had a dog that acted that obsequious...I would shoot it."
Finally , I always keep this quote in mind when working with new or potential clients;

"Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help them to become what they are capable of becoming." -Goethe-


As to cutting deals or bargaining...as a former horse trader, married to a dog trader, I'm always ready to make a deal. But these are the kinds of deals I like to make;
When I am commissioned to do a portrait, I will sometimes offer to paint a second, separate portrait of someone else at my "double figure in one painting fee" which is 50% more that the base fee. That way the client saves money while I increase my income from the commission contract by 50%.
I always offer my client a finder's fee of 10% if they will secure commissions for me. They rarely take the money...but it always prompts them to host an unveiling, make an introduction or offer some other sort of business advice to help me out. If they really make an effort on my behalf,succeed, and still won't accept the finder's fee...I will give them a framed drawing or little plein air painting as a thank you.
I have lots of other deals and bargaining chips...I just make sure they offer my client a chance to save money...while increasing my income beyond the original amount on the contract.
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Old 02-19-2006, 03:48 PM   #82
Paul Foxton Paul Foxton is offline
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Joy, can I just say how informative this thread has been for me. I've brushed with marketing myself, of the online variety, but you are evidently a dab hand. I have this thread bookmarked for when I get to that stage.

Oh, and if you really can't dissuade your son from getting a motorbike, and if he's like I was at that age I suspect you won't, put all your energies into ensuring he gets some advanced riding traing as soon as possible. At worst it will make him a better rider (faster, safer) and at best it could save his life. I can't recommend it enough. If he needs some more convincing point him my way.
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Old 02-19-2006, 03:57 PM   #83
Joy Thomas Joy Thomas is offline
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Motercycle wisdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Foxton
.
Oh, and if you really can't dissuade your son from getting a motorbike, and if he's like I was at that age I suspect you won't, put all your energies into ensuring he gets some advanced riding traing as soon as possible. At worst it will make him a better rider (faster, safer) and at best it could save his life. I can't recommend it enough. If he needs some more convincing point him my way.
Now that, Paul, is very good advice!...he is in fact looking at a used bike from an instructor at a cycle driving school...I should purchase a gift certificate for a course!
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Old 03-07-2006, 05:23 AM   #84
Mischa Milosevic Mischa Milosevic is offline
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Joy,

Sorry for not taking the time to respond sooner. I did find time to connect and keep abreast of what is new on the PAF and se the wonderful new art work posted.

Your experience with the exchange student from Germany is an adventure in it self. I am curtain that it was a wonderful experience for him and that he will cherish his memories of time spent at your home. It is so nice to be able to connect with people and give of one self and you are quite fortunate to be able to connect like that.

I am quite new to Germany in many respects. Newer thought that I would ever live here even though many of my countrymen/women do live here. I am sure that while here, I need and should visit individual sites and learn much about this country. God willing I will get that chance.I must go to Worpeswede and visit the Otto Modersohn Museum. Thank you for the recommendation!

Each day I learn that there are many art colonies scattered throughout the country. There is one that is quite famous in Kromberg a few miles from where I live. Bad Homburg, where I now reside, is a town that has been established by the aristocracy of the past kings, princes and such. It is but thirty or so km from Frankfurt.

I agree with Paul in regard to bike training. It has been my experience that the best training that one can receive is on a dirt bike and from a pro dirt bike rider. Dirt will teach him about control and awareness in diverse situations and much more. This tip of experience will better prepare him for the street bike where his reflexes and sense of awareness need to be at its peek. Otherwise his life could be in a bag and he wont see it coming.

I still have adjustments to make the language is a must. I start classes on the 14th of March. I need to figure out this portrait bussines in this area and how to make a living. Spoiled by the comfort of working from a model and adjusting to reference photos is something else i need to work out. There is so much that a camera does not see. I hope in time I will be able to use stand-ins. So, I better get cracking and learn the language.

My new assignment is to do a caricature drawing expressing the likes of a cardiology Dr. A chance to have some fun, all in good taste.

Sincere regards,
mischa
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:22 AM   #85
Alexandra Tyng Alexandra Tyng is offline
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Joy, these are great ideas you posted above. Hope you don't mind if I borrow them. I especially like the one about offering a finder's fee of 10%. I can see it in my mind how people would respond to it, but not necessarily take the fee--yet they would gladly accept a small painting as thanks. This has happened on a more informal basis with one or two of my former clients, so I can understand just how well it would work.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:58 AM   #86
Cindy Procious Cindy Procious is offline
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May I add my belated but hearty welcome to you, Joy. Your story of the exchange student was very moving, and your wealth of marketing advice very timely.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:59 PM   #87
Thomasin Dewhurst Thomasin Dewhurst is offline
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Hello Joy

It's nice to meet you. I am newer than you - I joined a few days ago - so it's not so much a welcome as a greeting. I am very much taken with your self-portrait. It's lovely, lovely, lovely! Such real feeling and character, and so wonderfully understated.

I hope to chat to you again soon.

(This is me in the Intruductions page.)
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