Kelly on Ice-my first custom panel

[Lisa Ober]

Hi all!

Yes, this is Kelly again. For this one I have (like an idiot) kept the very detailed jacket. I have cooled down the color quite a bit so I avoid my orange tendencies. I also felt it matched the expression on her face to make the whole thing more icey.

At the suggestion of Sharon Knettell and Jean Kelly I have made my own pastel panel for the first time and this is my first attempt on it. I may have overdone the texture a we bit since I am now missing a fingerprint on my pinky. I love having control of the texture of the panel however. Thanks so much, Sharon and Jean!

I must admit this is practice only but I would greatly appreciate any problems or pitfalls you see so I don't make mistakes with clients. My intent for this was mainly to figure out how to apply the pastel ground, get used to the custom board, and attempt to cool my colors.

I apologize for the many photos but I want you to be able to see the texture. I just love it (or the lack of it).

Rembrandt and Nu-Pastels on masonite primed with Golden's ground for pastel. 24 X 36.

I thank you in advance for your input.

[Carolyn Bannister]

I know that just saying wow and nothing constuctive is frowned upon, but I honestly can't think of anything to say.

So...wow!!

The detail is amazing and I really like the palette. The figurative content gives this so much more feeling as well, she looks like she has a bit of attitude

What measurement is the head?

I'm struggling to get detail in a face at the moment, I am so envious of the delicacy in the featues you have acheived.

Only because I've been studying the face so hard I have a little nitpick, the nose seems a little off to me, Because I'm not good at figuring out what the problem is I might be wrong, but I think it's her left nostril.

Now let me carry on checking the pattern on the jacket......

I've changed my mind....I've definitely been staring to hard at faces this afternoon Her nose is just fine.

[Richard Monro]

Congratulations. This is amazingly well done. I especially appreciate the textures of the jacket as that kind of detail absolutley drives me nuts. Sorry about the missing fingerprint, but that is a small price to pay for a wonderful piece of art. Looking forward to your next posting.

[Lisa Ober]

Originally Posted by Carolyn Bannister

I know that just saying wow and nothing constuctive is frowned upon, but I honestly can't think of anything to say.

Originally Posted by Carolyn Bannister

So...wow!!

The detail is amazing and I really like the palette. The figurative content gives this so much more feeling as well, she looks like she has a bit of attitude

What measurement is the head?

I'm struggling to get detail in a face at the moment, I am so envious of the delicacy in the featues you have acheived.

Hi Carolyn! What you said was indeed constructive. It made my day! This palette is a real change for me. I'm still getting used to it. Thank you for noticing the more figurative bent. I do so many vignettes for work that I almost forget I can show more of the figure. This was a fun change. Granted, it's a very simple setting but it's a step for me.

The head measures just about 8 inches from the bottom fo the chin to the top of the head. I rarely do anything smaller than that.

I find it hard to believe after seeing your lovely work that you have any troulbe at all with details. Were you talking about "Proud Housewife" when you said that? I have been watching your progress and I think it is coming along great. You work much like I did on this one, working from one section out. If you feel stuck, move on to something else for a bit. I find it helps. In any case, I think you handle features beautifully.

Thank you for the kind comments.

Originally Posted by Richard Monro

Congratulations. For a first pastel this is amazingly done. I especially appreciate the textures of the jacket as that kind of detail absolutley drives me nuts.

Richard, I wish it was my first pastel but it is only my first on a custom panel. Sorry if I confused you. I hope the nice compliment will still apply.

[Terri Ficenec]

Hi Lisa--
This is a beautiful piece, and you've done an amazing job on that quilted jacket, I love it!

You're in critiques, though... so here are some little nitpicky things that catch my eye:
- Her eye on our left seems stretched towards the outer corner, and isn't turning as it moves away from us
- Her near fingertips are reading below the nail as somewhat flattened? It could be that they are pressing into the arm there, but somehow they appear to be resting lightly on the fabric...
- The far wrist/hand reads a bit thick/boxlike to me?
- the angle of her mouth line and the bottom of her nose is different from the line of her eyes (which may just be the skew of her face, if her features are not symetrical)

Of course, the color question is difficult to address since it is so monitor specific... But I think you've done a nice job on keeping her skin tones away from the orange cast and generally her skin tones are very believable. I especially like the skin tones on her neck... her face seems cooler (than the neck) --maybe a little much cooler on the lower half of the face?... but that could just be my monitor so take that with a grain of salt!

[Mike McCarty]

Lisa,

This is really beautiful. I like everything about it.

I have two nit picks since you're asking -- first, her posture would indicate that she may be leaning against the wall, if this is true, I would think a slightly darker value would be indicated in the vicinity of her left shoulder as it contacts the wall. It seems a bit conflicted to me as it is.

The other item would be the slightly higher value of the hands. They seem just a bit brighter than the brightest notes of her face. And you might want to look at the temperature relationship between the shadowed forearm and her left wrist. It may be a value thing instead of temperature, I'm not sure. Also, the dark crease in that underneath forearm seems a bit too pronounced.

Her face, clothing and background are very beautifully done. I only wish I could do as well.

[Lisa Ober]

Originally Posted by Terri Ficenec

Hi Lisa--
This is a beautiful piece, and you've done an amazing job on that quilted jacket, I love it!

You're in critiques, though... so here are some little nitpicky things that catch my eye:
- Her eye on our left seems stretched towards the outer corner, and isn't turning as it moves away from us
- Her near fingertips are reading below the nail as somewhat flattened? It could be that they are pressing into the arm there, but somehow they appear to be resting lightly on the fabric...
- The far wrist/hand reads a bit thick/boxlike to me?
- the angle of her mouth line and the bottom of her nose is different from the line of her eyes (which may just be the skew of her face, if her features are not symetrical)

Of course, the color question is difficult to address since it is so monitor specific... But I think you've done a nice job on keeping her skin tones away from the orange cast and generally her skin tones are very believable. I especially like the skin tones on her neck... her face seems cooler (than the neck) --maybe a little much cooler on the lower half of the face?... but that could just be my monitor so take that with a grain of salt!

Terri, thank you so much for your thoughtful and detailed response. I hope you don't think I am arguing as I really want to learn but I have looked over my source photos and am posting pieces of them here so maybe you can help me. It was hard to find exactly the right photos since I combined so many but I think I found my best references for the eyes and hands. At least I am close.

First, I have cropped the eyes so you can see if you think it is Kelly or me that is off. I do see that I have "opened" her eyes a bit more so I know I am off there. Do you still see the problem with the direction? I am having trouble seeing it.

Second, I am posting the hands. I do agree with your comments but that is what I see in the photo with regard to the shape of the wrist. Any suggestions on how I could change/alter my representation of it so it reads better? I never really did like the way her hands were resting. Had it been a commission I would have changed it. I was too anxious to try this new board.

She is not symetrical (not way off though) and I am comfortable with the placement of the features but I can see why that is a little bothersome.

I am indeed having a terrible time with accurate color. I only have a Koday 4.1 MP camera which not only distorts the images but also picks up even the slightest underlying red colors and magnifies them like crazy. I have tried color correcting in Photoshop (which I know quite well) but it is too time consuming to isolate certain areas for color correction when the camera is so cheap.

Your comments are excellent and you have really made me look very hard at the drawing. Thank you so much. I am anxious to hear your thoughts once you have seen the photos.

[Lisa Ober]

Originally Posted by Mike McCarty

Lisa,

This is really beautiful. I like everything about it.

I have two nit picks since you're asking -- first, her posture would indicate that she may be leaning against the wall, if this is true, I would think a slightly darker value would be indicated in the vicinity of her left shoulder as it contacts the wall. It seems a bit conflicted to me as it is.

The other item would be the slightly higher value of the hands. They seem just a bit brighter than the brightest notes of her face. And you might want to look at the temperature relationship between the shadowed forearm and her left wrist. It may be a value thing instead of temperature, I'm not sure. Also, the dark crease in that underneath forearm seems a bit too pronounced.

Her face, clothing and background are very beautifully done. I only wish I could do as well.

Mike, thank you so much! She is leaning lightly against the wall but the only part touching would be her back shoulder blade. I would like it to look like she is more firmly placed so do you think I can still darken a tad at the shoulder? I agree with what you said. I was just too afraid to get it too dark. Once I do that it's hard to go back in pastel.

I have posted a photo of the hands in the above post and I am hoping you can tell me based on what you see whether I am off in my values on that arm. I am sure you are right. I think the shadow under her arm is too deep.

I have taken another photo of the work which is blurry but better color and posterized it in grayscale to see if my values are okay. Please look at that (posted below). I didn't use a flash when I took this one (which explains why it was blurry). I'm thinking the flash on my camera which aims straight for the middle, hit the hands and made the value lighter than it actually is. Of course I am basing this on my grayscale version which is the best way I know to check. Are there any other sure-fire ways of checking relative values? I really have to sacrifice color for clarity. I need a tripod.

I appreciate you also looking carefully at this. Thank you again for your help. You are a sweet and smart person.

[Terri Ficenec]

Hi again Lisa.

I see the resemblance in those eyes... and being able to compare with the reference still think that the eye on our left is 'stretched'. It also appears to be angled slightly flatter than in the reference. I'm attaching a direct (scaled to the width of the eyebrows) vertical comparison with overlying guidelines... both eyes actually seem slightly on the wide side relative to the eyebrows... but it is that the eye on our right doesn't seem to curve away from us on the outside corner that troubles me. If you look at the guideline that spans across both her eyes from outside corner to outside corner... you'll notice a deep shadow at the left most hash mark on the reference where the white of the eye appears to continue on the painting... the brow bone between the brow and top eyelid (both eyes?) is also more in shadow (both eyes?)... Don't know if pushing that down a tiny bit would help?

On the hands... you're right, that's an unfortunate, kind of problematic reference. Sometimes you've got to take things as far as you can with the reference, then step away from the reference and look only at the painting and address how it reads. I agree with Mike that reducing the values of the lights on those hands seems called for.... reducing the contrast this way (both hands) might help to reduce that appearance of flatness/boxiness. Perhaps unifying the shadows under the far wrist might help things on that side. In any case, reducing the brightness of those hands will allow our eyes to be directed more towards her face. . .

[Terri Ficenec]

Lisa-- just reread your response to Mike... had missed the note re: your painting being photographed with a flash... if that's what's making the hands jump out.. then disregard my comments on their value. . .