Chinese copyists

[SB Wang]

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/view...AuthorID=54086

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/18...s-paintin.html

[Enzie Shahmiri]

I just really would love to see one of these copies in person and see what type of quality they are. If they are good, then I would love to know how the coyists are trained and within what time frame one person can produce one painting. Also makes me wonder how much these employees are getting paid for standing at an easel everyday working in long shifts.


SB you must have answered my question with your post while I was still typing. Thanks for the information!


Does anyone know what legal recourse artists have? Marvin or Bill have you ever come across someone you know who has seen your knock off work? What were their comments?

[Alexandra Tyng]

Thank you, SB, for the links. I found the first article especially interesting and informative. The emphasis seemed to be mainly on the consumer, stressing the inferiority of copied works and the public's love of a bargain.

Although the issue of illegality was mentioned, I thought the article did not cover this issue adequately. There was a lot of concern over how the heads of these enterprises are getting rich while the copyist "artists" are not paid well and work in sweatshop conditions. Of course this is outrageous, but what about the artists whose work is being copied illegally? These businesses are blatantly violating copyright law when they should be 1) asking permission to reproduce, 2) paying the original artists royalties, and 3) respecting the right of the original artists if these artists choose to deny them permission to reproduce. The artists should be making money from this (if they choose) but they are not. They should be paid retroactively for all sales. The whole point, in my opinion, is that these businesses should not exist, at least not in their present form.

The author urged the consumer not to buy "sweatshop" products in general. Again, although this is an important issue, it lumps this "art" in with all other sweatshop products from China. The issues of 1) stopping the sale of illegal goods, and 2) the money due to artists of the original works, get only a passing nod in this article.

[Mischa Milosevic]

What ever the case, these artists produce some excellent work. I believe that there are lessons to be learn't here.

Whether we like or not, people WILL start comparing and asking 'what it is that I am paying for at prices ranging in the thousands'. They WILL start asking for credentials and a few months of study with Mr.so and so will not cut the mustard any more.

Let us be realistic here, what ever we may think, these young artists are producing paintings from photos. They are nut just copying a photo, as is the favorite pastime of today.

It speaks to me that I, I must hone my skills if I am to stay in the game, otherwise hit the road Jack or Jill. Or maybe my answer will be to rely on my marketing skills and not care about my level of skill. Or should I just slap paint around and call it art and then let marketing fret the rest.

Com on people. We need to wake up. Our skills must prove to be the best and better than the average Joe. If not one can find them selves at the sup kitchen down the street.

[David Draime]

From someone who lived in China for four years, I can confidently say that this is something that is not going away anytime soon. There are many reasons for this, and some are culturally deep-seated: In China, "copyright" is truly a foreign concept. Walk around any large city, or any smaller city for that matter and you will see vendors - everywhere - hawking their pirated cd's and dvd's - for 1 - 3 dollars each (90% of digital intellectual property in China is controlled by the black market). Every once in a while, the goverment will "crack down" - for a week or so - then it's back to business as usual. (This summer they will no doubt clear the streets of the hawkers - and the homeless - for the Olympics). In department stores you will see cheap, Chinese made knock-offs of everything from "Nike" footware to fake "Coca-Cola." When I lived in Beijing there was a real MacDonald's restaurant on the corner of WangfuJing Avenue (there are now hundreds), near Tiananmen Square. Across the street was a Chinese "McDonald's" restaurant - same colors - red and gold - same clown (sort of) and even the golden arches - only it was upside down and looked loke a "W." It's gone now but it was there for several years.

For six months I co-hosted an English language music show on Beijing TV with a friend of mine. My friend Tim created the show from scratch, the name, concept, graphics, everything. We were the first - and last - foreigners to host a television program in China. We were on the air for six months, getting quite popular - then the government suddenly pulled the plug. But the show continued - they just dumped the two of us, and installed two Chinese hosts. Everything else remained. Bottom line: in China, business contracts are...subject to re-interpretation.

Also, as an English teacher, I found that there seems to be no stigma whatsoever attached to plagiarism. Students would routinely turn in writing samples that they had just copied - perfect English. I taught a class for the other Chinese professors at a college in Xi'an - more than half of the professors plagiarized.

Regarding art - in traditional Chinese art education there is a long and respected tradition of copying the work of past (Chinese) masters. The Chinese take this to an extreme so that all of the art students I saw - all they did was copy. And though I was visiting an "art school" - all of the student work, when it was finished, was out on the sidewalk to sell to tourists. I realize now that all these students are now probably painting full-time...in the painting sweatshops in Dafen.

And this brings me to what I think is the real engine for this kind of enterprise: in China it is all about money. Money, money, money. The aspirations of most of my students was to "get rich." People back home would ask me what it was like to live in a communist country, and I would have to reply that China is most definitely not a communist country. In name only, maybe. China is the furthest thing from communist. It is capitalism run-amok. It's the wild west, only it's in the east.

And I love China - truly I do.

I find that scene in Dafen mind-boggling, but I wonder if we are over-reacting to it's significance. First of all, for artists doing portraits, does it in any way impact our getting real commissions? And if you are showing your work in any respectable gallery, is that gallery's clientele going to opt for a cheap Chinese knock-off, instead of buying original art? The broader public (in this country, anyway) has always been largely uneducated about fine art. The audience for our work has always been narrow - a thin segment of the population that may be said to have...taste. Has that changed?

When I was growing up, I remember seeing velvet paintings of Jesus, JFK, and Elvis (with a tear rolling down his cheek) all over the place, at gas stations, in malls...people were buying them. And as an artist, I never thought that I was in any way competing with these velvet masters, or that our markets were the same. I kind of see this as the same - although the scale of this Chinese industry is noteworthy. It's just entrepeneurs taking advantage of a largely art-ignorant public that has a little extra money to spend.

Marvin, I have a question for you: Are you livid, incensed - or even mildly irritated - at strangers stealing your images and making a few yuan off them? Or are you merely amused (or honored, humbled... ) at your recent elevation to the status of "Old Master?"

David

[Michele Rushworth]

I co-hosted an English language music show on Beijing TV

David, you are indeed a man of many talents!

It was interesting to read your description of modern Chinese life. As Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping said a few decades ago, "To get rich is glorious." It's not about communism any more.

To answer Enzie's question: the training these artists get is technically very good. In China "modern art" was viewed as western bourgeois corruption and was shunned. (Too bad that didn't happen here!) Chinese artists were trained by Russian masters instead, and now have some of the best skills in the world.

I'm not sure there's anything we can do about this sort of copying of the work of living artists, though. Microsoft hasn't been able to put much of a dent in the particular brand of "Chinese copyists" that they fight with every year. I don't think a lone American artist will have much better results.

As to the impact this will have on professional portrait artists in the U.S.... I like to think it's a bit like the automotive industry. If Hyundai produces some terrific new low priced cars and sells a lot of them, will that have much of an impact on sales of Mercedes Benzes? It's a different target market, and people choose what to buy for very different reasons.

But, really, who knows what effect this will have? The American clothing and furniture industries certainly went through a lot of upheaval when overseas suppliers came into play.

[Marvin Mattelson]

David,

I agree with you that these copyists will not make any headway when it comes to either your and my targeted cliental. I believe that even if there were artists in China who had the technical capability to successfully copy my painting style, they wouldn't be able to create new compositions due to a lack of understanding regarding my thought process. What I do goes way beyond just copying my reference. It's the subtle decision making that I feel elevates my portraits to works of art. At least this is what my clients say when I ask them why they chose to me.

According to an article in the New York Times several months ago, the best Chinese art schools are turning out young artists that are making a lot of money as unique individual artists. I would therefore surmise that the vast majority of those being funneled into these painting factories are not of the same high caliber.

However, I do receive a half dozen or so solicitations per day from Chinese painting factories. I wouldn't be at all surprised if certain other portrait artists actually take these factories up on their offers, farming out the production and having the factories produce portraits from supplied reference photos, and either retouch or just sign them, and pawn them off as "original" portraits. As a point of interest, my contract with my clients specifically states that my paintings are created solely by me.

I've have personally witnessed many instances where unscrupulous and underhanded actions by portrait artists, and those closely associated with the business, were perpetrated. It's hard for me to imagine that there wouldn't be some for whom the temptation will prove just too irresistible. I don't think that a lack of integrity, greed and a disregard for ethical behavior are limited to the Chinese. We invented capitalism, after all.

David, what percentage of those buying portraits are members of what you call the broader public? Do you really think these practices will affect the bulk of American portrait artists that don't cater to more elite cliental?

Regarding your question, I'm mostly amused. Who wouldn't be flattered to be termed a MASTER? (Whether it's a legitimate title or not!) But I could do without the OLD attached.

[David Draime]

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

David, what percentage of those buying portraits are members of what you call the broader public? Do you really think these practices will affect the bulk of American portrait artists that don't cater to more elite cliental?

I was just making the point - as you did - that our targeted market is a small fraction of the overall population. They may not all be rich, but they are relatively few. The average American is not going to spend $3000 + for a portrait of their spouse or child (how I wish this was not the case!). Commissioning an original oil portrait is not even on most people's radar. And the potential clients that we do have, even those that are on a budget, are unlikely to send a photo reference to a factory in Dafen to have an anonomous painter render their Brittany (in a day!) and have it shipped backed to them framed and ready to hang. Even those (hopefully few) clients who wouldn't know the difference - I don't think they would go to the trouble and uncertainty. So, though I find the whole phenomenon rather distasteful, I don't feel threatened by it.

I will start worrying when I see a Chinese copyist factory opened in Nashville with ten thousand employees.

HOWEVER, since I am rather new to this whole portrait world, I would readily and happily defer to your considerable experience and judgement on such matters. Just thinking out loud.....

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

Regarding your question, I'm mostly amused. Who wouldn't be flattered to be termed a MASTER? (Whether it's a legitimate title or not!) But I could do without the OLD attached.

How about MIDDLE-AGED MASTER?

David

[Michele Rushworth]

I will start worrying when I see a Chinese copyist factory opened in Nashville with ten thousand employees.

Now there's a striking image! I can imagine how the Detroit auto manufactuers must have felt when Toyota started opening up factories across the South.

This is from the International Herald Tribune (part of the New York Times):

"In Alabama alone, Mercedes-Benz has doubled the size of its plant near Tuscaloosa in the past year; Honda has done the same at its factory in Lincoln; Hyundai, the South Korean automaker, opened a factory last month in Montgomery, Alabama; and Toyota is adding 300 workers at its engine plant in Huntsville. The automobile industry in the United States is not dying - it is just changing hands."

Globalization affects all businesses eventually, I suppose.

[Marvin Mattelson]

Detroit began losing it's foothold because it didn't give people what they wanted, high quality cars that fell within their specific budget. It's still going on.

Hopefully we will not be myopic like Detroit. I'd like to see those Chinese factory workers live in this country making 50 cents to a dollar per painting.

I'd worry about US based portrait artists or agents having the paintings produced in China and claiming otherwise.