La Donna Velata

[Leslie Bohoss]

Hi

My new underpainting in progress : Raphael : La donna Velate (partially)
I want to make it without any "modern" technical tool.(layer-over-layer or gridding etc..) As eye-school practice. (it means full with errors?)
I stopped here: the stuff is too golden...Must be underpainted with other color (R.Umber+Tit.W) to make it so gold? Or must be underpainted if I lates covered with opaque colors like Y.Ochre etc.?

(just see: nose is not good)
Many thanks for response.
Cheers Leslie.

[Leslie Bohoss]

Oh forget: dim: 19.6" * 23.6"

Original (part):

[Leslie Bohoss]

Picture changed...

Hi !
At night, I did a "discovery" (for me). In the dimmed light (and with an extra "only head" print!) saw the big errors in the proportions. WOW, the picture of yesterday is very very bad, forget it please! Big sorry to Raphael too..
This one, I think is better, with the props and details of the head..
I'm sad, with more concentration and a little "technical" helps. Can anybody explain me: why I'm fully "lost" at bigger pictures then 12-13"? Well, in any case: I learned a much at last night.What a luck, having time to paint only nights!
Weekend, I'll make more details and fines.

Big thank for seeing!

[Steven Sweeney]

I'm sad, with more concentration and a little "technical" helps. Can anybody explain me: why I'm fully "lost" at bigger pictures then 12-13"

Leslie,

Replying for the moment only to this question, I suspect that one of the reasons is that, in the smaller formats, you're able to keep both the reproduction and your own work together in your field of vision, so comparison is much easier.

Make sure you're set up to do the same with the larger formats, which requires that you periodically (frequently, actually) step back from your easel far enough so that you can see both the reproduction and your own painting at the same time, without turning your head. How far back is that? Usually about three times the largest dimension of your painting. So, if the canvas is 3 meters tall, stand back 9 or 10 meters to compare the two pieces. Your eye will pick up differences much easier than if you are standing right "on top of" the work.

I agree that you improved the copy's proportions when you reworked it. Keep doing those checks as you go, to see what else might be a bit "off," before you make a firm commitment to any final stages.

[Karin Wells]

I stopped here: the stuff is too golden...Must be underpainted with other color (R.Umber+Tit.W) to make it so gold? Or must be underpainted if I lates covered with opaque colors like Y.Ochre etc.?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. On my monitor it appears that you have used burnt umber + white instead of raw umber + white.

The latter mixture will appear cooler and not so "reddish" as in your post. I prefer to work with a cooler underlayer. As to the color gold, I do not see it in your example - am I missing something?

I try to keep yellow out of the underpainting and reserve those warm colors in the upper layers in order to represent light.

The underpainting is meant to be the halftone layer and halftones are "cool" (a relative term).

On top of your "cool" underpainting layer, you will thickly build warm light and add thin warm shadows. Highlights - which you add last will be "cool" (another relative term when compared to the layer directly underneath).

[Leslie Bohoss]

Hello!

Thank you Steven, Karen. Sorry, I must understand your anwers first.
@Steven , my "hard trained eyes" plays crazy with navigation because of calculating from small to big...simple but explain a lot.Many thanks!

@Karen , sorry for my unclear sentences. It is Raw umber+White only the photo made at not true lighting.(too warm) Sorry! I try to make better shots, photographing oilpictures is not so simple as I thought, sorry again)
To my question: I painted seldom "golden" fabrics (I mean the triple stripes and leftside on the cloth as "golden" brocade) I read following about painting gold:

" Gold has long been a favorite of pictorial painters. Probably because its so easy to paint. First, mass the entire area in with Raw Sienna and a hint of Cadmium
Yellow Medium. Then, paint in the highlights with a mixture of Naples Yellow and a little White or a mixture of White, Cadmium Yellow Light and Cadmium Orange.
To make the gold look shiny and convincing, you must add dark tones to contrast with your highlights. Mix Alizarin Crimson and Ivory Black into your mass tone
and paint the dark areas. The brightest areas of color are midtones made with Cadmium Orange and Cadmium Yellow Medium. These midtones should be lower in Value than the highlights. Any reflected colors should be mixtures of the color and the mass tone. Reflections can
never be lighter than the highlight."
(Source:Watson-Guptill-Book, Rob Howard)

Now this confused me a bit : this above is "direct painting" but with more steps. A building-up process like normally underpainting. Now I asked me, if I paint this complicated and time eating clothing, should I paint with this mass tone etc...from the text above (directly) or with R.U.+T.W like the rest of all. (won't to paint 2 times)
Or in other words: How to paint gold in your underpainting method?
Quote:
"I try to keep yellow out of the underpainting and reserve those warm colors in the upper layers in order to represent light."

should means: ALL the things in pictures MUST be underlayed with R.U.+Wh. there is no "extra tricks"?

BTW: Daler-Rowney has an "Underpainting White", is it better for that as Tit.Wh. or Flake Wh. (anyhow not to buy here) ?
Sorry for my curiosity, (unsure in myself yet) , Many thanks!!
PS: I working on the likeness, hand etc..so long, every day new flaws...I think it is good to lie a picture for a few days/times down, than seeing with "clean mind".

Sincerely, a fighting Leslie.

[Karin Wells]

When you have a completed raw umber + white underpainting, the next step is to add glazes and scumbles.

In making something look like gold, use transparent glazes like raw sienna and raw umber overall to get the dark gold look underneath and in the shadows.

Then you use opaque color on top of the wet glazes and scumbles - like Naples Yellow + whatever to represent the shiny gold areas.

It is all a version of the directions you already quoted.

Remember that oil paint - even what we call "opaque" - really isn't. It is translucent and the underpainting layer will show through the top most layers to make those beautiful and subtle halftones that the old master paintings have.

[Leslie Bohoss]

Many thanks Karen!

I refine my version and will to underpaint brocade and hand. I hope it is more better.My best brush was my finger.
Some flaws at face since Tit.W so long open and I painted in tacky paint.
I try to make a better light to shot.

Thank you again!

[Karin Wells]

Your first picture of your underpainting is better than the last one because of the limited range of value.

Neither highlights of white nor deep shadows and dark values belong at this underpainting stage. They should only come later in the last upper layers of color.

See this for more info: http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...=&threadid=794

[Leslie Bohoss]

I'm so sorry, I disappointed you.

I overworked many time and deeping in details, became more and more darker.

You had explained it with "room" to go dark and light.
Can I repair somewhat (repaint)?
It was appr.8-10 hrs. I see now the project as an additional practice.
Thank you for your effort!
Leslie.