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Old 05-11-2003, 05:31 AM   #11
Khaimraj Seepersad Khaimraj Seepersad is offline
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Hey Tim,

A little white in that facial hair and we will be seeing snow and reindeer. Ah for all these new looks.

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Old 06-20-2003, 11:28 AM   #12
Kirk Richards Kirk Richards is offline
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I mentioned in a recent post that I had posted a response to Hockney's book on my website. I would like to direct attention to the two articles at


concerning Hockney's theory.

One article there deals with Hockney's total misunderstanding of the artists' motivation and uses quotes from the artists themselves to demonstrate the error of his thesis, and also describes the standard requirements of students who competed for the prestigious "Prix de Rome." Ingres and others who competed and won did so under the careful scrutiny of judges and officials and no optical aids of any sort were permitted.

The other article by Gregg Kreutz takes Hockney's 7 main "proofs" and responds to them point by point.

Take a look.

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Old 06-26-2003, 05:29 PM   #13
Tom Edgerton Tom Edgerton is offline
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Before you run off to get Hockney's book and a projector, you've missed the point. Tools and skills are not the same thing. It's as if one assumes that one can establish a nice side business in brain surgery just because one buys the scapel from the same place as the surgeon.

When not working from life, I always start with a careful drawing. This is primarily to learn the structure of the face and head before I start slapping on the paint. In very short order, the drawing is totally obscured, and it's the same long march to the finish, with a lot of side trips and loops on the way. If any tool could streamline this preliminary work, it would still be the same process with the painting. No shortcuts, no tricks. If you can't paint, the result will be horrible no matter what device you started with.

Good painting will never be anything but **** hard. But there is nothing more fun, nor ultimately more rewarding. If it were easy, there would be no museums. I wouldn't have it any other way.

"The dream drives the action."
--Thomas Berry, 1999
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Old 06-27-2003, 11:20 AM   #14
Margaret Port Margaret Port is offline
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big grin Relax everyone!

Hey, don't panic!

Like everyone here, I've spent years studying and drawing. I can do it without the shortcuts!

It's just nice to dream sometimes that there is an easier way, but I guess if there was, no one would bother painting at all.

We need people like Hockney to rouse us out of our complacency occasionally and he certainly got plenty of discussion going.

Must admit I have bought an overhead projector though. Can't say it does the job for portraits because the lines are too blurry. It is however excellent for silk painting and my 4' x 3' tropical fruit and flower paintings.
Margaret Port
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Old 06-28-2003, 06:55 AM   #15
Peter Jochems Peter Jochems is offline
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Apart from his theories... Which are fun anyway. I wish Hockney had drawn and painted more portraits over the years. He could 've been a genius.

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Old 08-01-2003, 11:10 AM   #16
Lisa Gloria
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Hockney's a genius!

Well, according to Hockney in his book, he's done "hundreds" of portraits. Wow! You'd think he would have improved over time, but oh well. I just got this book for my birthday, after looking at it in the store for months. I love it! To wit:

1 - He's right, there is a mysterious sort of acceleration in Northern Europe at about 1420-30, and Southern Europe a hundred years later. Something probably happened to improve painting in general. In my opinion, the camera probably played a role, but was not the major factor.

2 - He's right, those guys draw and paint wayyyy better than DH.

3 - The part of the book talking about the "errors" produced by the use of cameras is wonderful! I've noticed a lot of them before, but many I just said "huh, that looks a little weirrrd." Some things he says are errors are simply attributable to the style of the time, though, aren't they? Other things are errors I could easily reproduce without a camera!

The 20th century art movements did some wonderful things, opening up galleries and tastes, allowing artists to play in their reindeer games whether or not they had any training, craftsmanship, etc. I'm not being sarcastic - I really like modern art. I really don't like Impressionism, but I like that it happened. And while realism and classical realism seem to have evolved, did they evolve at the same pace?

Basically, I would like the $16,000 I spent on art school back!! That was only 2 years, and it was a while ago, but I'll tell you I learned more from Bob Ross, Bill Alexander and books than I learned in school. One of the reasons I left is because I didn't see any reason to stay - when I went to senior shows, loads of people had ideas and angst, had a drive to paint, but *none* of them could paint like the people on this forum. I thought "well, I'm not angry - what do I have to paint about?" So I thought, hey I'm no artist, I should go.

In school, we all learned how to draw on the right side of our brains, and then, uh, well, we did that some more. (Yes there may have been mysteries unfolded in the 1.5 years I missed, but then wouldn't the seniors have evinced it?) If ever *once* there had been a Tim Tyler, Daniel Greene, Raymond Kinstler, Karin Wells, Bill Whitaker, Chris Saper, etc etc I would have stayed, and left behind this nagging feeling that I just wasted 15 years of my life.

So long story longer, DH I think is pointing out a lot of things, including a general lack of understanding of the mechanics of painting, not just on his part, but on a lot of people's parts.
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Old 08-01-2003, 10:09 PM   #17
Peter Jochems Peter Jochems is offline
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Mr. and Mrs. Clark and Percy

Apart from the discussion about his views on the use of mechanical aids in painting. When I gave my comment on David Hockney I had one thing in the back of my mind. Before the man and his talent gets ridiculed... He DID make the painting 'Mr. and Mrs. Clark and Percy'. (although I guess the 'Bouguereau-school of modelling faces' won't like it). Isn't it a unique painting with a grandeur reminiscent of the great eras in painting which lie far behind us?

More information about this painting you can find here:

It's sad to see people bash artists like him all too easily.

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Old 08-04-2003, 11:32 PM   #18
Elizabeth Schott Elizabeth Schott is offline
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Did anyone catch this on 60 Minutes last night?

I thought it was really interesting, it reminded me of the thread Tim started about the maturity of painting. Hockney zeroed in right on the time decided upon.

I thought the part of all the "left" hands appearing all of a sudden was amazing. I guess if you look at these artists as trying to operate their business and getting the most work possible, they must have had a number of ways to save time.

The chandelier and distortion of the tablecloth, I thought, were equally interesting.
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Old 09-10-2003, 07:46 PM   #19
Timothy C. Tyler Timothy C. Tyler is offline
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ARC and Goodart

Check out ARC and Goodart-yahoo, there's quite a rage going on over there.
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Old 09-11-2003, 09:43 PM   #20
Cynthia Daniel Cynthia Daniel is offline
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Send a message via ICQ to Cynthia Daniel Send a message via AIM to Cynthia Daniel Send a message via MSN to Cynthia Daniel Send a message via Yahoo to Cynthia Daniel

Could you please give exact web addresses for these?
Cynthia Daniel, Owner of Forum & Stroke of Genius


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