Portrait Artist Forum    

Go Back   Portrait Artist Forum > Methods of Seeing


Reply
 
Topic Tools Display Modes
Old 10-06-2006, 05:14 AM   #11
Mischa Milosevic Mischa Milosevic is offline
Juried Member
FT Professional
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Bad Homburg, Germany
Posts: 707



>
> My reasoning is this.When drawing from life, like the cast or live model, we will not have a tracing paper to use. It is best not to use it now rather push one self, our mind, our eye to see the mistakes. Measuring with a string should be enough to meashure and check. Can you see the beniffit? In the next category of exercises, there wont be a actual taped down plumb line, on the copy, all the time, to work from, only a imaginery plumb line. A plimb line that one will place visualise the point from which to measure and measure.
As for the tracing paper exercise. This principle can be used for shape exercises. Draw a shape, simple at first, then attempt to reproduce it perfectly. Give your self three checks with a tracing paper. The ear exercises, and such, can be used but it is better to draw shapes of sort. This way you are not atemting to make something look like a ear or an eye rather to make it exactly like the shape.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 04:11 PM   #12
Paul Foxton Paul Foxton is offline
Juried Member
 
Paul Foxton's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Epsom, United Kingdom
Posts: 76
Send a message via MSN to Paul Foxton
Hi Mischa,

Sorry for the delay, life has been a bit busy.

I've changed the set up now, sliced off the top schematic so I can move it up the drawing board, taped down the plumb line (I thought it sensible to use the vertical supplied) and drawn a corresponding vertical on my paper. I've checked that the board is level with a spirit level.

The plan is to give this about two hours per night, so it may take a little while. I'll give it more if I can find the time. Here's a pic of the current set up, hope you approve:
Attached Images
 
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 04:50 PM   #13
Mischa Milosevic Mischa Milosevic is offline
Juried Member
FT Professional
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Bad Homburg, Germany
Posts: 707
I visited your web page and saw that you have a lot of different art projects in the works. I have also noticed a lot of improvement especially in the last while. Your charcoal value studies are excellent and your one color studies are up there as well.

As for the Bargue exercises they are amassing teachers if only they are executed correctly. Many artists of today even some academy trained artists still have not fully grasped the value of th Bargue plates. I will give you a hint. The extent and the benefit you will understand if you complete the exercises properly. Four plates, that is all, and your minds eye will see thing you never thought possible.

Your set up looks good. Start of first by marking the top of the fut and the bottom. I stress the importance of these first marks to be level with the original copy. Why? Because later on when you glance back and forth from drawing to the copy this will help you to see if you are of or not. If the alignment is off, in the setup, then your mind needs to adjust in order for you to see your mistakes. I think you know this but for the benefit of others I have tried to explain the importance.

Good speed but precision is better.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 07:00 PM   #14
Paul Foxton Paul Foxton is offline
Juried Member
 
Paul Foxton's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Epsom, United Kingdom
Posts: 76
Send a message via MSN to Paul Foxton
Thanks Mischa, that's very encouraging to hear. The Bargue drawings I've done so far have undoubtedly taught me much already, I'm hoping this thread will help me to get to the next level with them. Thanks again for being so generous with your time.

Just so I'm clear - are these first top and bottom points drawn across say with a ruler and a spirit level, to make sure that they are absolutely accurate, or do I do them with the sight-size method using the string?

I find I can get accurate to within about an eighth of an inch with the string, sometimes closer, but rarely absolutely accurate. I'm generally standing about 6 - 8 feet back from the easel when I measure with the string. I know that the rest of the drawing will be done with a combination of string and judging by eye, I just want to make sure I get this first part right.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2006, 07:43 PM   #15
Mischa Milosevic Mischa Milosevic is offline
Juried Member
FT Professional
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Bad Homburg, Germany
Posts: 707
The red string

For now, get the marks accurate the best you know how.

As for how to further transfer measurements. At this stage it is not done at a distance. Most of the work you will do seated. When you start refining you will look from a distance. This said, you will measure with a string wrapped around forefinger of left hand and forefinger of right hand using the thumbs as a slide and the nail on the thumbs as the measuring edge. Here is a photo to help explain. Think of the tape as a finger nail on the left and finger nail on the right hand.
Attached Images
 
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 12:18 PM   #16
Mischa Milosevic Mischa Milosevic is offline
Juried Member
FT Professional
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Bad Homburg, Germany
Posts: 707
I am wondering if anyone else, besides Paul, has started the Bargue study and how far along has one got?

Some would think that having the Bargue book and reeding the instructions without actually using the plates will be sufficient to implement the principles and understand the procedure within a self induced project.

When I first arrived at the Angel Academy and was introduced to the same plates, I thought to self that the four plate requirement in pencil would be a breeze to do and that I would have them out of the way within a week or two. I was wrong. Three took 12 days each and the fourth 20 days. Approximate number of hours worked on each was 4 hrs a day.

The first one the foot the simplest to do was the toughest for me. Each one after presented a different challenge but what a delight when completed. After finishing the four plates I realized I was barely at the start of understanding what came next and that was working from the cast in charcoal. After finishing the first cast, the face of Michelangelo's David, it was but then that my minds eye was illuminated. The next challenges difficult to do but pure pleasure. In my arsenal I had the understanding and this understanding made the clime up easy.

Remember the three little pigs and the wolf, I'm sure we all do. Taking a short cut in ones studies will result in?

I have learn't and am still a student, that art that will stand the test of time is not just a line in pencil or charcoal but a line precisely executed, it is not value shadow or light rather it is the same precisely executed, it is not color or hue warm and cool rather precisely executed. If these and other elements that are a sum of a Valasques, Bouguereau, Cassatt, Sargent etc are not understood properly it will not stand the test.

A Bargue executed in pencil first will give one the tools needed in order to properly understand charcoal. Another thing, it will most assuredly speed up the learning process. If you do not believe me ask anyone that has followed this procedure. If you still do not believe me then ask the many professionals of today about the struggles that they have in reaching their individual goal of excellence. Then again it all boils down to what one's goal is.

I hope that my words wont be misunderstood. I am not promoting a particular school but rather am sharing with the members of this forum my understanding of the matter, from personal experience.

A sincere, All the best, whatever path one takes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2006, 09:14 PM   #17
Ngaire Winwood Ngaire Winwood is offline
Associate Member
 
Ngaire Winwood's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Toowoomba, Australia
Posts: 350
Send a message via Skype™ to Ngaire Winwood
Dear Mischa and Paul

I have tried a couple of the Bargue plates a couple of times but have found my concentration goes all too quickly. I can only manage about 20 minute sessions before I get bored or distracted.

I lost my job two weeks ago and am re-arranging my art space to start doing the plates again. I have attached Plate 1-14 and 60 that I have completed but am going to go back and start from Plate 1-4 where I left off from last time.

I have already noticed a big change in 'seeing' and expect to 'see' more when I 'do' more Bargue. I am also fighting with my inability to concentrate which causes me to lose faith in finishing all of the exercises. I know if I can complete more I will learn more. I just get so bored with the slowness of it all.
Attached Images
   
__________________
Ngaire Winwood
Smile a While!
http://whisperingwindstudio.blogspot...ough-time.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2007, 05:05 AM   #18
Mischa Milosevic Mischa Milosevic is offline
Juried Member
FT Professional
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Bad Homburg, Germany
Posts: 707
Ngaire, I apologize for not responding sooner and blaming this or that is not what I wish to do. I am at fault.

Your drawing of plate 1,14 is looking good. There are some concerns and one is that you mite be rushing the learning process. Don't fret this is a common mistake that most make and that is rushing to get to the finish. Each drawing is set up to teach a student curtain steps that are essential for eye and value development. If the steps are followed correctly the reward will be there.

In your plate 1,14 the line drawing could have been taken to a more accurate level before the introduction of value. Certainly you have a good drawing but you have not reaped the full benefit. For example some measurements look to be off which you can easily check. Then the line variation needs some adjusting checking for areas where the line is straight in relation to where there is a dip or a slight curve. Is curved line convex or concave. Then the shadow value must be a flat solid dark dark at a appropriate value. The halftoan is to be just that and in correct relation to the shadow and light making sure that it is accurate when compared to the original.

Sure this is tedious and boring in which case you need to find ways to motivate self. I remember when I was doing my first charcoal study. I got as far as the half ton stage and felt I could not budge another inch. It was my first experience with charcoal at this level of precision and I felt PAIN. Still, I got up of my chair and went to the paper with the idea to place but five dots on the paper. I ended up putting twenty. My biggest problem was not the work rather the understanding of how to make that charcoal do what I wanted it. When I got through that stage I was in place of bliss.

So, one must ask one self. What do I want? Do I want to just finish this exercise and get it over with or do I wish to get the benefit's that it offers. Each must decide for them self.

I wish you a good choice and acuracy

"It is better to be accurate than fast" Wild Bill Hickok
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2007, 07:22 PM   #19
Ngaire Winwood Ngaire Winwood is offline
Associate Member
 
Ngaire Winwood's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Toowoomba, Australia
Posts: 350
Send a message via Skype™ to Ngaire Winwood
Mischa, thank you very much for your reply. I really do appreciate it. Yes I am sprung, I did rush it out of boredom.

I do find it difficult to stick with it, patience is a virtue, I realise, but I suppose my attention span got the better of me or was it self-discipline that was lacking.

I have restarted the plates with a different perspective and am on Plate 1-4 ears and have taken the position to slow down my evaluations to see better.

Self discipine is a big issue for me, any hints?
__________________
Ngaire Winwood
Smile a While!
http://whisperingwindstudio.blogspot...ough-time.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 06:07 PM   #20
Mischa Milosevic Mischa Milosevic is offline
Juried Member
FT Professional
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Bad Homburg, Germany
Posts: 707
Ngaire, I believe that self discipline can be a tough one. If you nudge away at it and continue to push it out of your way you can beet it. After a time, you will be surprised for self discipline will not be a problem any more.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing this Topic: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Topic Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Topics
Thread Topic Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eye training - a series of cast drawings Paul Foxton Methods of Seeing 21 12-04-2006 09:19 PM
Bargue Plate for customer Patricia Joyce Old Master Copy Critiques 3 01-11-2006 04:47 PM
Bargue Exercises - an ongoing experience Ngaire Winwood Exercises and Challenges 33 01-05-2006 08:31 PM
Paintings by Charles Bargue Ngaire Winwood Exercises and Challenges 2 09-26-2005 11:11 PM
Bargue book finally released Marvin Mattelson Books, Videos & Publications 10 03-13-2005 01:09 AM

 

Make a Donation



Support the Forum by making a donation or ordering on Amazon through our search or book links..







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.